The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

Started by Greatest I am, April 06, 2018, 11:41:28 AM

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Greatest I am

The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

A nutshell view of Gnostic Christianity is expressed in the first two links. The third shows the attitude and result of Christian and Gnostic Christian interaction. I should point out that Gnostic Christianity does not hold to any supernatural belief, although I know that the literature, mostly written by those who won the God wars, wants to show that we do. Our myths have a lot of supernatural entities but they are myths, not reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&t=3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ptNcSYo7k4&t=338s

I heard the saying in the title of this O. P. some time ago and after looking at the moral aspects of both ideologies/ theologies; --- I think that statement to be true from a moral point of view.

Do you?

Regards
DL

Blackleaf

The length of your three videos combined is one hour, fourteen minutes, and fifty four seconds. I doubt you're going to find many here willing to invest that much time before posting here.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

Can we have it in a nutshell what the difference is between Gnostic Christianity and regular Christianity?  Specifically, does Gnostic Christianity still posit a deity of some sort and that Jeshua bar-Joseph either was, or was a part of, that deity?  Is there still a belief in a soul or some other transcendent part of consciousness, an afterlife, any sort of eternal punishment?

Provisionally, though, I'm going to say false, but for this reason: a good Christian is, in my view, a good person who attributes their own innate goodness to the god they believe in rather than giving themselves their own due for doing good.  It's of no relevance to their goodness what flavor of Christianity they followâ€"or any other religion, or lack thereof.  Certainly I can't stop someone from attributing their goodness to their Christianity, but in my mind what makes them good is within themselves, not imposed from without.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

I kind of think Gnostic Christianity IS Christianity.  Gnostic means "knowing".  Isn't that what Christians think they do?  They have their book, they have their Pope and other god-interpreters who say they speak to JESUS every day.  What else is there?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 01:48:45 AM
I kind of think Gnostic Christianity IS Christianity.  Gnostic means "knowing".  Isn't that what Christians think they do?  They have their book, they have their Pope and other god-interpreters who say they speak to JESUS every day.  What else is there?

Belief doesn't equal knowing.  Regular religious are believers, not knowers.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

fencerider

Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2018, 03:47:59 AM
Belief doesn't equal knowing.  Regular religious are believers, not knowers.
maybe regular religious are just good little machines. They spit out what they were programmed with. Like the knob on a washing machine. It has no idea what it is doing but it regularly spits out the response that was programmed into it.
"Do you believe in god?", is not a proper English sentence. Unless you believe that, "Do you believe in apple?", is a proper English sentence.

Unbeliever

The original Christians were "gnostic" and I've even heard Saul/Paul called a gnostic Christian. Those were the ones who didn't think of Jesus as being a real historical person, but as a mystery deity, more like an inspirational gimmick than anything else. The historicists came along decades later and took the religion as their own, reifying the "Messiah" as a real man/God. The so-called "orthodox" Christians were like the freshest initiates, who never understood the deeper meaning of the whole thing, but only what had been given them on the surface. The gnostics were more like the later protestants, who could imagine their deity any way they liked.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: fencerider on April 07, 2018, 04:24:40 PM
maybe regular religious are just good little machines. They spit out what they were programmed with. Like the knob on a washing machine. It has no idea what it is doing but it regularly spits out the response that was programmed into it.

Well, that is the way the Elite want people to be ... with them controlling the knobs.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

The only good christian is a dead christian.  Ummm...........wait...........wait..........I think I'm confusing that with this saying--the only good indian is a dead indian.  I guess it is doesn't really compute one way or the other.

I don't think it matters which is the 'good' one.  There is no 'good' christian in that none are accurate or based on facts or evidence.  Both are fictions.  Either hypothesis leads to control of the masses and are just as destructive.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Unbeliever

I don't think gnostic Christians are about controlling anyone. I think they're more of a sort of "do it yourself" kind of religion.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Mike Cl

Quote from: Unbeliever on April 07, 2018, 06:03:51 PM
I don't think gnostic Christians are about controlling anyone. I think they're more of a sort of "do it yourself" kind of religion.
Maybe.  But I think Paul was a gnostic.  And his writings are all about controlling others.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Cavebear

Quote from: Unbeliever on April 07, 2018, 04:32:56 PM
The original Christians were "gnostic" and I've even heard Saul/Paul called a gnostic Christian. Those were the ones who didn't think of Jesus as being a real historical person, but as a mystery deity, more like an inspirational gimmick than anything else. The historicists came along decades later and took the religion as their own, reifying the "Messiah" as a real man/God. The so-called "orthodox" Christians were like the freshest initiates, who never understood the deeper meaning of the whole thing, but only what had been given them on the surface. The gnostics were more like the later protestants, who could imagine their deity any way they liked.

I am not very surprised that the people closest to the alleged Christ in time were less likely to consider him "real" than later generations.  The whole idea is mostly a myth anyway.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!