Author Topic: Islam in America  (Read 871 times)

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2018, 04:57:58 AM »
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Neither mathematics nor science is based on "faith." Individual mathematicians and scientists may have quasi-religious belief in particular things, ...
Just AS I dont believe in God!
I know Him and I have ample evidence on His existence.

If I tell you I have a son called Tommy, but you never met him, obviously you will believe that I have a son.
You will be convinced, however no evidence in your environment exists.

However, when you meet my son, you dont have to believe Tommy exists, you will know him.
Gone is the religion, is is the fact.

This is the only difference between me and you.
I know where everything came from, you deny it on the grounds that you can not believe therein.
You believe to believe is erroneous, and now claim no evidence to believe.

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2018, 06:24:38 AM »
Aristotle ...

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Materialists only acknowledge the Material cause and the Formal cause.  But not all atheists are materialists.  There are also the Efficient cause and the Final cause.  Some will acknowledge these two, for things that are human caused (or by extension to animals etc).  But they will not extend this to the universe as a whole.  My typing this uses the "efficient cause" of a computer and other technology.  My purpose, communicating, is the "final cause".  But a stone, spontaneously rolling down hill, under gravity, has neither of those ... there is no technique, no person intended it.  These people who exclude "efficient" and "final" causes from the universe as a whole, are also atheists.

Now back in the day, at the dawn of modern science, Aristotelianism ruled in Western universities.  "efficient" and "final" causes were described by theology (though for Aristotle, the "final" cause of the universe was impersonal, not a deity).  Christians had adapted Aristotle to make him a theist, which he was not.  When you consider "final" causes, that are impersonal, these are called "teleology".  The rise of modern science got rid of this "teleology" directly.  And that indirectly god rid of deity.  The seculars gradually seized control of the universities and governments, from the clergy.  Modern science was then expanded on the basis of technique aka "efficient" cause ... but the human one.

An ancient person would say definitely, that if a rock rolls down a hill on its own, some spirit pushed it ... it has an "efficient" and a "final" cause.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 08:30:50 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2018, 07:11:32 PM »
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Just AS I dont believe in God!
I know Him and I have ample evidence on His existence.
Liar. You absolutely believe that your God exists. It shapes your worldview and your words. Philosophically, knowledge is a subset of belief.

And no, you don't know him or have ample evidence of his existence. You only think that you do.

Quote
If I tell you I have a son called Tommy, but you never met him, obviously you will believe that I have a son.
You will be convinced, however no evidence in your environment exists.
We know that sons —male children of other people— do in fact exist. I have seen ample evidence that it is possible for you to have a son called Tommy, and I have no prior reason to doubt you when you claim such.

There has been no demonstration that a God exists, and there is plenty of reason to believe that any person who claims that one exists is either mistaken, lying, or delusional.

Quote
However, when you meet my son, you dont have to believe Tommy exists, you will know him.
Gone is the religion, is is the fact.
You are using "religion" in a way not generally recognized as legitimate. Trusting you that your son Tommy exists is not a "religion." It's just trust. I don't have to pray to Tommy, I don't have to bear being browbeaten by obnoxious internet citizens that your son Tommy really exists on pain of Hell after I die, nor does your Tommy have any supernatural insights into the origin and working of the universe that he has revealed in this special book of his.

And you are unable to present God to me to prove his existence like the way you can present Tommy to me and prove his existence. That, to me, is a very substantial and real difference.

Quote
This is the only difference between me and you.
"Only?" Bold words. No, there are a few other more substantial differences between you and me. Like an education.

Quote
I know where everything came from,
Proven false by your inability to answer basic questions about these origins.

Quote
you deny it on the grounds that you can not believe therein.
I deny it on the grounds that you demonstratably don't know what you're talking about.

Quote
You believe to believe is erroneous, and now claim no evidence to believe.
No, to believe without evidence is a recipe for disappointment in the least. I have seen no evidence of your god or even the possibility of your god, while I have seen evidence for the possibility for your son Tommy.

Quote
Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.
You can keep repeating that line, but it won't make it any more true. Atheism is the label for people who don't believe that there is any god. Nothing more.

I don't care if you proclaim otherwise from the top of the tallest mountain, a lie is a lie.
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(she bites!)
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Offline Munch

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2018, 08:02:46 PM »
mousetrap, your believing that you know god and that he does exist has as much credibility to it as people who use to believe that cutting a sick patient and letting them 'bleed out the negative energies' was a legit way of curing their aliments.
Thankfully medicine has evolved since those days. maybe its time you did too.

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #79 on: Today at 08:45:51 AM »
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mousetrap, your believing that you know god and that he does exist has as much credibility to it as people who use to believe that cutting a sick patient and letting them 'bleed out the negative energies' was a legit way of curing their aliments.
Thankfully medicine has evolved since those days. maybe its time you did too.
Yea! John Hughes Bennett and William Harvey discovered Bloodletting is not Medicine.
Then Again, they were Christians, and one would expect such science to be discovered by them.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #80 on: Today at 08:47:31 AM »
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mousetrap, your believing that you know god and that he does exist has as much credibility to it as people who use to believe that cutting a sick patient and letting them 'bleed out the negative energies' was a legit way of curing their aliments.
Thankfully medicine has evolved since those days. maybe its time you did too.
Actually, I would hope that consenting adults could choose that kind of treatment. That would thin them out nicely.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #81 on: Today at 08:53:21 AM »
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Actually, I would hope that consenting adults could choose that kind of treatment. That would thin them out nicely.
Just think how atheists would die if it was not for God fearing surgeons and doctors who discovered all the workings of Biology.
No, I would say you guys have something to be great full for.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Munch

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #82 on: Today at 11:50:19 AM »
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Just think how atheists would die if it was not for God fearing surgeons and doctors who discovered all the workings of Biology.
No, I would say you guys have something to be great full for.

you seem to be equating a belief in god to that of the growth of modern day medicine and biological understanding. It was only when they stopped following religious indoctrination did such studies evolve, and that is why the majority of doctors these days do not follow a faith, or leave that shit at the door to only focus on medicine and becoming a doctor.

Offline Hydra009

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #83 on: Today at 12:54:38 PM »
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Yea! John Hughes Bennett and William Harvey discovered Bloodletting is not Medicine.
Then Again, they were Christians, and one would expect such science to be discovered by them.
They were probably right-handed, too.  More proof of the inherent superiority of us orthodox Rights over the sinister Lefts.

Offline Baruch

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #84 on: Today at 01:12:21 PM »
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Actually, I would hope that consenting adults could choose that kind of treatment. That would thin them out nicely.

Only at your local licensed barber.  They were the only ones with sharp knives, hence the red/white barber pole
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Offline Baruch

Re: Islam in America
« Reply #85 on: Today at 01:13:18 PM »
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They were probably right-handed, too.  More proof of the inherent superiority of us orthodox Rights over the sinister Lefts.

Leonardo was Left and Gay ... so burn his shit! (sarc)
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