Author Topic: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...  (Read 1613 times)

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2018, 11:33:48 AM »
I was just one of a dozen historians working on that project. The next generation of historians have the conn now.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2018, 11:47:43 AM »
Hopefully, they will do as good a job.

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2018, 12:36:41 PM »
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Hopefully, they will do as good a job.
I have no doubt. I've been "shopping around" for five years. The top choice is one of the admins at ww2f.com/ww2t.com, name of Otto. Hardcore history, that boy.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »
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I have no doubt. I've been "shopping around" for five years. The top choice is one of the admins at ww2f.com/ww2t.com, name of Otto. Hardcore history, that boy.

Retire at Will, sir!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2018, 05:55:39 PM »
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Retire at Will, sir!
We shall retire in good order in the face of an enemy who is advancing in an utter rout.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Baruch

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2018, 06:33:37 PM »
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We shall retire in good order in the face of an enemy who is advancing in an utter rout.

You are fighting France?

No history before about 5 or 10 years ago, about WW II, is worth a damn, because of lack of knowing about Ultra and Double Cross.  And much of that is still classified.

A war history is also a political history.  And politics is all lies, all the time.  What is the best propaganda for governments today, is different than it was in 1968 for example.  Who controls the past, controls the future.

Professional historians still don't agree if either Patton or Rommel were worth a damn.  I am pretty sure without Ike we would be speaking German however.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2018, 11:37:58 PM »
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We shall retire in good order in the face of an enemy who is advancing in an utter rout.

Well there is certainly nothing wrong by chasing an army in defeat.  The best way to stop a war...
  But my experience in studying some battles says that sometomes the winning army withdrew not understanding their good position.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Hydra009

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2018, 12:00:02 AM »
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  But my experience in studying some battles says that sometomes the winning army withdrew not understanding their good position.


"Did someone say my name?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2018, 12:08:40 AM »
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"Did someone say my name?"

Ah George B. McClellen.  The man who could organize an army but not use it .
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2018, 05:37:33 AM »
"Gen. McClellan, if you're not planning on using our army I wonder if I might borrow it?" Abraham Lincoln.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Baruch

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2018, 10:44:56 AM »
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  But my experience in studying some battles says that sometomes the winning army withdrew not understanding their good position.

Kudos
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Online Baruch

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2018, 10:47:54 AM »
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"Gen. McClellan, if you're not planning on using our army I wonder if I might borrow it?" Abraham Lincoln.

Monty was guilty of meticulous planning and thanks to Ultra knew his enemies position and supplies.  McClellan did not (he had observation balloons however).  The idea of one army surprising another, as at Chancellorsville is inconceivable today, but was still possible in 1939 in N France.

Opinions differ on Monty .. but I consider Market Garden was a letdown by poor staff work ... and Ultra didn't tell him that there were Panzers already there.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2018, 02:13:54 AM »
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"Gen. McClellan, if you're not planning on using our army I wonder if I might borrow it?" Abraham Lincoln.

Great line from the Civil War.  One of my favorites.  After Grant saying "I will fight on this line all Summer".

The Western front produced Union Generals who knew how to fight.  Grant, Sherman, Thomas, Rosecrans.    And Grant found that Meade in the East was the same.  Grant told Sherman to destroy the Southern Confederate armies while he and Meade engaged Lee in the East.  Sherman marched to the Atlantic destroying all the western confederate armies, and Grant surrounded Lee at Petersburg and Richmond.  That essentially ended the war. It just took time. 

War is all about figuring out what advantages you have.  When Lee met Grant, he was defeated by concept.  Grant understood how to win the war.  And you know something I've always liked about Grant?  He wore a privates uniform with just his stars on the collar, he sat around them and ate the same food they did, and his boots were muddy.  He didn't care a damn for respect or appearance.  He just planned one attack after another, patiently winning the war.  Because it was the only way to do it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2018, 05:48:09 AM »
Sherman was just looking for a beach.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Baruch

Re: What is truth/history? It just keeps on changing ...
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2018, 07:16:42 AM »
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Great line from the Civil War.  One of my favorites.  After Grant saying "I will fight on this line all Summer".

The Western front produced Union Generals who knew how to fight.  Grant, Sherman, Thomas, Rosecrans.    And Grant found that Meade in the East was the same.  Grant told Sherman to destroy the Southern Confederate armies while he and Meade engaged Lee in the East.  Sherman marched to the Atlantic destroying all the western confederate armies, and Grant surrounded Lee at Petersburg and Richmond.  That essentially ended the war. It just took time. 

War is all about figuring out what advantages you have.  When Lee met Grant, he was defeated by concept.  Grant understood how to win the war.  And you know something I've always liked about Grant?  He wore a privates uniform with just his stars on the collar, he sat around them and ate the same food they did, and his boots were muddy.  He didn't care a damn for respect or appearance.  He just planned one attack after another, patiently winning the war.  Because it was the only way to do it.

Yes, Grant and Sherman knew how to kill people, both their opponents and their own soldiers.  But that is war for you.  The East Coast folk were too educated ... except for Chamberlain (at Lt Round Top).  The Southern scions were also a bit too educated as well.  College wasn't what you needed back then.
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