Author Topic: The Gospel According to Carrier  (Read 667 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2018, 08:03:41 PM »
OK ... no Paul, no Jesus, no Luke ... so this was cooked up by a drunk Emperor Vespasian at a orgy at the Temple of Venus?
שלום

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2018, 08:36:50 PM »
Well, we don't know yet who thought it up and developed it into what it later became - that's the thing we're all trying to figure out.
God Not Found
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.”
Stephen Hawking

Offline trdsf

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2018, 08:43:42 PM »
I remain unconvinced that a historical Jesus is even relevant, since the vast, *vast* majority of Christians are followers of Paul's writings far more than they are of the teachings attributed to a Jeshua bar-Joseph.

It's more probable, IMO, that the character of Jesus is an amalgamation of any number of messianic itinerant preachers roving the Mid-East about two thousand years ago.  For my money, it's more probable that any historical Jesus was actually a time traveler stumbling into the role than an actual god...
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2018, 05:54:39 AM »
I remain unconvinced that a historical Jesus is even relevant, since the vast, *vast* majority of Christians are followers of Paul's writings far more than they are of the teachings attributed to a Jeshua bar-Joseph.

It's more probable, IMO, that the character of Jesus is an amalgamation of any number of messianic itinerant preachers roving the Mid-East about two thousand years ago.  For my money, it's more probable that any historical Jesus was actually a time traveler stumbling into the role than an actual god...

When the time traveller tried to sell Pontius Pilate on BitCoin ... that is when they crucified him ;-)
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2018, 09:02:04 PM »
I let some young guys in, and they were grateful about that, so when they didn't make any headway with me, they brought in the big guns.  The Church Minister showed up a couple of times, and then he handed the saving of my soul to an older woman about my age who showed up in a Cadillac and with a book marked Bible, with all the passages that proved the Bible was the word of God.  Finally, she gave up, and that was the last I heard from them.

However, I called the minister, who was also a building contractor, a few years later when I needed a cement pour for a garage floor.  He was busy, but he said he would send his sons, who worked for him.  Now the hand of God must have been at work, because a true honest to God miracle happened, actually two miracles in quick succession.  First, the cement guys, two scrappy lads in their twenties, actually showed up on the day they said they would.  This has never been known to happen, as far as I know.   Their personalized license plates, "ELK AHOLIC"  attested to their devotion to elk hunting, and when I asked them if they would give me a hand with a massive beam, they each grabbed an end, hoisted over their heads and put it in place so I could secure it later.  The second miracle was that they left with the best cement pour I ever had, smooth as silk, and it never cracked while I lived there.  I've never had a garage floor that never cracked before.

Well, I certainly wouldn't have specifically called a religious construction worker to do work on my house, but I wouldn't have refused one either.  My experience in that the 2 ideas aren't much connected.  In fact the duo I hired to replace my 30 year old bathtub and tile all around (based on quality reports) turned out to be not only very religious but utter racists as well.

They did quality work.  But I won't ever use them again.  I couldn't stand listening the country music they played all day.   Drove me CRAZY, but I never want to wake someone doing work in the house.  The music lasts a couple days, the tub lasts for 30 years.  You have to put up with stuff sometimes.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2018, 09:16:16 PM »
I remain unconvinced that a historical Jesus is even relevant, since the vast, *vast* majority of Christians are followers of Paul's writings far more than they are of the teachings attributed to a Jeshua bar-Joseph.

It's more probable, IMO, that the character of Jesus is an amalgamation of any number of messianic itinerant preachers roving the Mid-East about two thousand years ago.  For my money, it's more probable that any historical Jesus was actually a time traveler stumbling into the role than an actual god...

That certainly seems most likely to me.  There were wandering preachers of varying ideas among the Roman-occupied Jews in a time of great social stress.  That some various writers a century or 2 later (a length of time far longer in perception then that it is to us today, having a better sense of history) should combine the ideas of many preachers into one is not a great surprise.

And that some small group of believers who disagreed with each other at first about the details of the new ideas slowly settled on some basic agreement is not exactly a surprise either.  People compromise to get allies, after all.

And as in all ideologies, some leaders rise to the top and negotiate agreements.  There were a lot of various "christian" sects at one point.  One group won.  Until the Protestant Revolution...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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