Author Topic: The Gospel According to Carrier  (Read 739 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2018, 02:11:41 PM »
The Mormons believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God - that makes them Christians, whatever form their particular religion takes. The early Christians had many forms of worship, but that didn't make any of them not Christians either.

Please make your pilgrimage to Salt Lake City then.  Sounds like you accept the claims of Mormon missionaries.  My pilgrimage would be to Jerusalem, not Rome or Canterbury or any of those other Gentile tourist traps ;-)

Any Christian is to a degree, Bible based, as the text they have since about 400 CE.  Joseph Smith came up with a totally new scripture ... so then are Muslims Christian?  They came up with a new "biblical" scripture, and it is way more "biblical" than the near Scientology text that the Book of Mormon is.
שלום

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2018, 02:15:35 PM »
I guess there isnt much difference in believing in something written down in a religious writing or believing in your own combination of religious ideas; except social acceptability.
People believing in their own combination of religious ideas was exactly what the Roman Catholic Church was trying to put an end to, way back in the 3rd century - that's what the word "catholic" means, universal. The Romans were hoping they could unite their empire if everyone believed the same "orthodox" tenets, so they did everything they could to root out all of the beliefs that they didn't approve of - mostly by murdering the "heterodox" believers: those who were guilty of what they (the RCC) considered to be heresy.
God Not Found
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.”
Stephen Hawking

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2018, 02:16:58 PM »
sometimes its easier to deal with other people than ourselves.


So Baruch is a mystic. I will have to leave it at that. Y’all have spent a great deal more time studyin religion than I have. I’m not going to pretend I know something that you don’t.

I get Baruch’s point about individualism. I work with a guy that was raised Catholic. He never goes to church and doesnt do things Catholics are supposed to do, but he has a belief in a Catholic god mixed with something else. My ex from Equador has a belief in a mix of a Catholic god, south American paganism and a universal energy field. and I know a Japanese woman whose parents are Shinto. She went to a Mormon church until they tried to force her to marry a guy she didnt like. Interesting combination.

I guess there isnt much difference in believing in something written down in a religious writing or believing in your own combination of religious ideas; except social acceptability.


O.P. maybe the world would be a better place if the myth was exposed back when it was created. But people in power discover the joy if manipulating the people they control. Burying a myth may have ended their fun

Real experience by real people ... is empirical, and at least superficially free of idealism or rationalization.  This input is anecdotal, but seems reasonable.  Yes, as per Freud's nephew, Edward Bernays, everything is marketing now, commercial or political.  And the apes eat it up like candy turds.  If you presented facts to people (in the sense usually meant here) they would simply say ... false news ;-)  Without manipulation and confirmation bias, the GDP would go to zero overnight.  Please wait ... while I order that "slicer-dicer" being advertised on the pop-up add right now ...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 05:50:28 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2018, 02:18:28 PM »
Please make your pilgrimage to Salt Lake City then.  Sounds like you accept the claims of Mormon missionaries. 

What!? Just because I post my understanding of what Mormons believe, you claim it sounds like I believe it!? Why do you post such stupid shit?
God Not Found
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.”
Stephen Hawking

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2018, 02:18:58 PM »
People believing in their own combination of religious ideas was exactly what the Roman Catholic Church was trying to put an end to, way back in the 3rd century - that's what the word "catholic" means, universal. The Romans were hoping they could unite their empire if everyone believed the same "orthodox" tenets, so they did everything they could to root out all of the beliefs that they didn't approve of - mostly by murdering the "heterodox" believers: those who were guilty of what they (the RCC) considered to be heresy.

Part of Constantine's brilliant plan.  Outlived him by 1700 years already.  Yes, the pagan temples were government subsidized (state religion) so drop their subsidy, and have Christian mobs tear them down.  And Christians who seem to deviate ... execute them.  One of my Roman ancestors, Emperor Magnus Maximus, was the first Christian to execute other Christians for deviancy.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2018, 02:19:30 PM »
What!? Just because I post my understanding of what Mormons believe, you claim it sounds like I believe it!? Why do you post such stupid shit?

No sarc tag.  Meanwhile I can send you all my copies of Watchtower if you want ;-))
שלום

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2018, 02:20:26 PM »
so then are Muslims Christian?
The Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, they believe he was a prophet - so no, they are not Christians. You know that as well as I do, so why do you post such stupid shit!?
God Not Found
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.”
Stephen Hawking

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »
The Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, they believe he was a prophet - so no, they are not Christians. You know that as well as I do, so why do you post such stupid shit!?

I was mentioning "biblical".  And no, I don't believe for a minute, when they are in their magic underwear, that Mormons believe that Jesus was the Christ.  But then neither do I.  But I am not a Mormon.  The original scriptures are more than enough for me, I don't need Joseph Smith.  The Muslims added new scriptures, and went farther than Christians, in replacing the originals.  Mormonism is very close to that ...
שלום

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2018, 01:26:10 AM »
which angel was of higher rank? The one that talked to Mohammed or the one that talked to Smith?🤔

I vote for Smith. He had scrolls made out of beaten gold. Mohammed only got paper ;-)
not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2018, 01:27:51 AM »
The Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, they believe he was a prophet - so no, they are not Christians. You know that as well as I do, so why do you post such stupid shit!?

Baruch is just playing with you.  He didn't care about your actual answer.  It was just fodder for another post to reply to.  It SEEMS to me that is all he has in life.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2018, 05:51:57 AM »
which angel was of higher rank? The one that talked to Mohammed or the one that talked to Smith?🤔

I vote for Smith. He had scrolls made out of beaten gold. Mohammed only got paper ;-)

The clue is in the name ... Moroni ... really?  And Gabriel was Xena's girlfriend.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2018, 08:33:11 PM »
which angel was of higher rank? The one that talked to Mohammed or the one that talked to Smith?🤔

I vote for Smith. He had scrolls made out of beaten gold. Mohammed only got paper ;-)

And Moses got stone.  You see I hope that all the claims are just sad imaginationings...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2018, 07:05:47 PM »
I am not completely sold on Carrier's mythicist evidence, but he does make a pretty good case, seems to me.

I watch every YT video from him.

He has pretty impressive credentials.
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2018, 08:43:21 PM »
I am not completely sold on Carrier's mythicist evidence, but he does make a pretty good case, seems to me.

I watch every YT video from him.

He has pretty impressive credentials.
Have you read any of his books?  On The Historicity of Jesus, is especially good.  Good enough for me to think Jesus was a myth.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Gospel According to Carrier
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2018, 11:14:41 PM »
Have you read any of his books?  On The Historicity of Jesus, is especially good.  Good enough for me to think Jesus was a myth.

I've always noted that the Romans kept good civil records and Jesus wasn't among them.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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