Author Topic: The IQ Problem  (Read 2333 times)

Offline pr126

The IQ Problem
« on: March 04, 2018, 05:25:45 AM »
Is this a tabu subject where everybody is deemed equal?
Political correctness forbids to talk about this.
Facts be damned.


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« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 05:33:39 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will." - Joseph Goebbels

Online Baruch

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 06:53:02 AM »
Very tricky.  Hard to define.  IQ vs EQ.  And "Law of Averages".  For immigration (one of their shared concerns) you can't use the "Law of Averages" ... that the average IQ of a person from Africa is lower than the average IQ of a European.  Immigrants should be vetted.  Give each immigrant an IQ test, in their primary language, and only let in the high scores.  This has traditionally been ...

1. Make it almost impossible to become an immigrant (see France)
2. Don't allow in refugees aka uncritical admittance (see Japan)
3. Have a quota (see US)
4. Preferentially allow in the college educated (see US)
5. Allow doctors and engineers to immigrate in (see US)

Can't help if your country gives up sovereignty, or thinks that refugees have rights to your country.

N American immigration policy is somehow better than the European version.  We don't have little countries with their own languages (except Quebec).

Now what is IQ?  Partly language, partly culture ... and partly basic intelligence.

What is EQ?  Partly sociability, partly mental stability ... and partly personality.

Here is the entrance exam for Cornell University 1891 (in upstate NY).  Few here could pass it as an IQ test ...

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Almost nobody here could pass an EQ test.  Better not immigrate, better stay in quarantine in Outer Slobovia.

While I am pro-immigrant ... I am not pro UN aka that since all people are in the UN, that anyone should be able to immigrate anywhere they like ... same as someone in Texas can immigrate to California.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 06:56:11 AM by Baruch »
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Offline pr126

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
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"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will." - Joseph Goebbels

Offline Mermaid

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 01:44:55 PM »
This is another steaming pile of shit.
Question how "intelligence" is measured. Is it a fair test across cultures? What exactly does it measure? How do you know? Who designs these tests that measure intelligence?
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Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 02:52:27 PM »
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This is another steaming pile of shit.
Question how "intelligence" is measured. Is it a fair test across cultures? What exactly does it measure? How do you know? Who designs these tests that measure intelligence?

I appreciate your scepticism. I don't have time to answer all those questions in sufficient detail but bottom line is intelligence is measurable, there is a lot of solid research to support this, but it is very difficult to design an intelligence test that is culturally unbiased. An IQ test can identify those individuals who would be considered intelligent by Western standards, but you're not going to be able to answer the question of whether you're picking out people who are most intelligent according to the standards of their culture. I encourage you not to simply take my word for it and research IQ if you are interested.

If IQ testing didn't accurately measure cognitive ability there would be no ethical problem, but it does and therefore it is an ethical minefield. The problem Peterson addresses is how psychologists and educators assumed if students with low or high intelligence were identified education could be tailored to suit their needs. However research is showing educational interventions aren't effective at improving IQ. There is an argument to be made that if educational programs don't improve IQ there is little reason to test children, that the benefits no longer outweigh the risks. One of the risks of IQ testing is certain people use IQ to justify existing prejudices or political ideologies.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 04:05:40 PM by GSOgymrat »
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Offline Mermaid

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 02:58:55 PM »
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I appreciate your scepticism. I don't have time to answer all those questions in sufficient detail but bottom line is intelligence is measurable, there is a lot of solid research to support this, but it is very difficult to design an intelligence test that is culturally unbiased. An IQ test can identify those individuals who would be considered intelligent by Western standards, but you're not going to be able to answer the question of whether you're picking out people who are most intelligent according to the standards of their culture. I encourage you not to simply take my word for it and research IQ if you are interested.

If IQ testing didn't accurately measure cognitive ability there would be no ethical problem, but it does and therefore it is an ethical minefield. The problem Peterson addresses is how psychologists and educators assumed if students with low or high intelligence were identified education could be tailored to suit their needs. However research is showing educational interventions aren't effective at improving IQ. There is an argument to be made that if educational programs don't improve IQ there is little reason to test children, that the risks no longer outweigh the benefits. One of the risks of IQ testing is certain people use IQ to justify existing prejudices or political ideologies.

Thank you for articulating what I am generally too lazy to think out. :)
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

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Online Baruch

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 07:31:44 PM »
Very low level, language and cultural independent testing is possible.  But I also doubt that it is actionable.  Other factors in educational outcome wash it out (except for the profoundly retarded)
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Online Cavebear

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2018, 06:11:24 PM »
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Is this a tabu subject where everybody is deemed equal?
Political correctness forbids to talk about this.
Facts be damned.


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PR, your new avatar isn't fair.  I can't dislike a cat!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2018, 10:16:24 PM »
That cat looks rather feral.  Appropriate for him, yes?
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Offline pr126

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2018, 11:00:24 PM »
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That cat looks rather feral.  Appropriate for him, yes?
Not feral. A street cat, a fighter. Other cats don't want to mess with him.
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will." - Joseph Goebbels

Online Baruch

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2018, 11:01:50 PM »
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Not feral. A street cat, a fighter. Other cats don't want to mess with him.

My mother's tom cat, when I was little ... the dogs crossed to the other side of the street to avoid him ;-)
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Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 01:54:32 PM »
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Not feral. A street cat, a fighter. Other cats don't want to mess with him.
Kind of reminds me of that cat in Get Fuzzy.
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Offline Mermaid

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 05:52:33 PM »
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Not feral. A street cat, a fighter. Other cats don't want to mess with him.
Big handsome thing.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 08:18:31 PM »
Immigration, if it is restricted at all rather than being disallowed entirely, should preferably be restricted by objective tests or a preponderance of evidence that the specific individual is unfit to be allowed in. IQ, unfortunately, is more voodoo than science. It's measuring something, but it's never been validated that it's actually measuring intelligence, rather than something else, or a mixture of a bunch of factors (including in part intelligence).

Besides, proper IQ tests (not the shit you find in the back of OMNI magazine) are expensive to administer, on the order of hundreds of dollars per person, not to mention the time involved — over millions of immigrants per year (that pass the immigration tests; implying that more apply than this and fail), that quickly adds up. I don't think any nation has that kind of cash to spare, at least on immigration.
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Online Cavebear

Re: The IQ Problem
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 05:24:05 AM »
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That cat looks rather feral.  Appropriate for him, yes?

No, actually I don't see his avatar cat as feral.  Sort of mildly Catnipped.   
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