Author Topic: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?  (Read 4768 times)

Offline trdsf

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2018, 11:27:26 PM »
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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.
Oh, that's easy.  The sheer number of direct internal contradictions means it cannot be either logically complete or logically consistent.  Even setting that aside, the lack of corroboration from the archæological record suggests it's little more than a collection of millennia-old fairy tales and campfire stories.

If you assume that a god is a perfect being, then his/her/its/their word should be perfect.  Well, the so-called word of this god says that bats are birds (except when they're locusts), that pi is exactly three, that there's nothing wrong with slavery, and can't agree on the events surrounding the death and alleged resurrection of Jeshua bar-Joseph.

Not a ringing endorsement of the book.  The Harry Potter series was more internally consistent.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2018, 12:16:48 PM »
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Why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be?

Because an all knowing, all powerful god would have at least got basic facts right.
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2018, 05:16:18 PM »
Since there is no God, then the Bible cannot be God's word. QED
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Offline Baruch

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2018, 07:27:02 PM »
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Since there is no God, then the Bible cannot be God's word. QED

Correct.  But my posts are the word of a demigod.  G-d is speculative, opinions will differ.
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Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2018, 07:46:39 PM »

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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God.
...
I do not claim to "know that the Bible isn't the Word of God" (your words).  Accordingly, your assumption is wrong, at least for me and for many others too.  I believe that the probability of the Bible being the Word of God is quite low.  Similarly, I believe the probability of the existence of "a God" (again, your words) is also quite low, and the probability for that God to be the Christian God to be lower still.  All of these likelihoods can have different strengths, and their values can change when new relevant information is available.

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...
I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God).
...
I'll give you three of the numerous reasons:

1)  The actual empirical evidence indicates the Bible was written by many different humans over a long period of time and complied into the most common collection by other humans about 200 years after the last book was written.  The writers and compilers (including those who revised, added to and redacted in later years and centuries), for the most part, were exposed to certain religious beliefs as children by trusted adults.  In addition, family and local societal peer pressure were placed on them for their entire lives to maintain the particular tenets and dogma from the particular religion in question.  The books of the Bible contain these same religious tenets and dogma.  All other books written during these times were also composed by humans.  Many of them were literary and contained fictional stories from their own religions, local legends and regional myths.  Nearly all of the books in the Bible follow this same literary form.  There is likely actual facts in parts of the stories (e.g., Samual and Sarah had a child named Jeb).  They also contain fanciful inventions (e.g., the bird spoke to Dimiatus and told him of his fate), exaggerations  (e.g., the army had 10,000,000 horsemen) and similar literary devices for the time.

This is a quite plausible explanation of the what the Bible actually is.

2)  Many of the stories in the Bible have been demonstrated to never have occurred.  Examples include the Noachian Flood, the Tower of Babel (regarding the conflation of language among humans) and the Exodus.  Those stories which have not been demonstrated to not have occurred have not been demonstrated to have occurred.  The only evidence which supports such fanciful claims as the sun standing still, the dead being resurrected, one must believe in Jesus to be saved from annihilation and an afterlife in Heaven or Hell come from the stories themselves (or from similar stories from other religions' books), from statements and other writings from humans who themselves believe the stories' contents as true in the first place and/or from apologists who typically use lies, misrepresentations and a host of logical fallacies to defend the merely asserted claims.  This evidence is quite paltry and unreliable.  Since the fanciful claims have not been demonstrated to have occurred, the claims can be tentatively rejected in full.  Rational discourse 101.

3)  Human societies have changed since the times of the Bible's authorship.  The scientific method provides an excellent  process for investigation and development of actual and tentative knowledge.  Memetic evolution has improved moral/ethical behavior.  The knowledge and ethics/morals contained in the Bible is, in large part, obsolete and indicative of the cultures of that time.  Indeed, due to the long time it took for the books of the Bible to be written, and other factors such as the location of the writings and the different societies in which a particular author was placed, similar changes are found in the ethics and morals contained in the surrounding stories.

Assuming a particular God contains the character trait of remaining unchanged, the changes in the Bible regarding the various deities presented are at odds with that unchanging character.  On the other hand, a more parsimonious and mundane explanation is simply that the stories are literature written by different people at different times and in different places.

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I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion....
It's not a matter of right or wrong.  It's a matter of probability, although as regards some items, the probability is so high (that the item is a fiction) that it approaches actual knowledge. 

And yes, of course I am open to the possibility that I may be mistaken in my probability analysis.

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especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human).
...
Whether I have been incorrect in other probability analyses is not relevant to another particular analysis, provided the methodology is done well.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 07:54:34 PM by sdelsolray »

Offline Cavebear

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2018, 12:33:46 AM »
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Thanks for the responses.

@Cavebear - I am happy to provide evidence, but as I said, the Bible makes very serious claims that impact you.  Unless you don't care if you suffer terribly forever you should have good reasons why you dismiss the claims.

I'll leave your replies to the others for them to respond to...  But you argument to me both really grinds my gears AND amuses me. 

The fear of eternal punishment is a hallmark of most religious arguments for believing in a deity.  That, IF YOU DON'T you will be PUNISHED horribly and forever!  That's a "benevolent deity?  I wouldn't take that crap from a Crazed Sadist, and surely, you would argue that your Deity is better than a Sadist...

Now first, please understand that I don't believe in any deity and I do not expect punishment from one.  I live my life without assuming there is one one.

But, really, what sort of Deity are you believing in?  An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent one that punishes lesser creatures for not understanding it perfectly?  Something that would subject creatures just learning how to think to torture for failing to be equal in comprehension? 

Sounds like a crazy idea to me. 

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Hydra009

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2018, 01:08:43 AM »
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The fear of eternal punishment is a hallmark of most religious arguments for believing in a deity.  That, IF YOU DON'T you will be PUNISHED horribly and forever!
Yeah, that's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login right there.  The fact that our lowkey proselytizer had to stoop so low speaks volumes.

Suffice it to say that demanding that someone say that they love you or you'll break their legs doesn't win any true affection.  It's simply abusive, manipulative behavior   Hell threats are like this but just taken to a much more vile (yet oddly, more socially acceptable) level.

Offline trdsf

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2018, 12:46:52 PM »
I should also add that I would need a reason to think there was a god in the first place before I'd even consider the possibility that his/her/its word might be in a book, any book.  Asking why I don't accept the Christian bible as the word of their god is about three or four questions late; you first need to demonstrate the existence of your god before we get anywhere near whether that book is an accurate record of his/her/its rules and actions.

For that matter, why don't you accept the Vedas, the Avestas, the Tripiṭaka, the Quran, Dianetics, the Principia Discordia as divinely inspired?

All reasons you don't accept them are just as applicable to the Christian Bible.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2018, 01:29:10 PM »
I bet he doesn't believe in the Shariyat Ki Sugmad either. That's the holy book of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. It's at least as valid as the Bible for containing Truth.
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"Which do I prefer? Sex or chess? It depends on the position."
Boris Spassky

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2018, 01:30:16 PM »
I bet he doesn't ever return to this thread.  Typical religious nut--answer my questions--I don't need to answer yours.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2018, 01:31:35 PM »
I assume he was afraid his faith would be shaken. Only those with weak faith fear those with no faith.
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"Which do I prefer? Sex or chess? It depends on the position."
Boris Spassky

Offline SGOS

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2018, 02:37:29 PM »
I would expect a perfect god to have a better understanding of basic physics and cosmology.

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2018, 02:57:15 PM »
At least some understanding...
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"Which do I prefer? Sex or chess? It depends on the position."
Boris Spassky

Offline Cavebear

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2018, 04:17:32 PM »
 Presented with  facts, most theists vanish back under the rock (of ages?) from whence they came.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2018, 07:21:17 PM »
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I bet he doesn't believe in the Shariyat Ki Sugmad either. That's the holy book of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. It's at least as valid as the Bible for containing Truth.

I am rather fond of the Bhagavad Gita myself.  It has a longer pedigree.
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