Author Topic: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?  (Read 5071 times)

How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« on: March 02, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »
Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.

Offline Shiranu

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 11:15:47 PM »
Mostly because the god as portrayed in the Bible is logically impossible, also in large part because "his word" is just a conglomeration of Hebrew and Near East folklore and mythology.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

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Offline Baruch

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 11:19:14 PM »
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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.

Others can respond closer to how you want, because I am a theist, though not the same kind of theist as you present yourself to be.  I teach Hebrew, and read the Bible in the original languages ... and it is an old anthology of religious writing, written by men (most likely).  There is the question of inspiration, but I consider inspiration to be ordinary, no different than you being inspired to make this post here.  And yes, I have been wrong about things in the past, in the sense that what I think continues to develop every day.  Just don't expect anyone to arrive at any particular destination you expect.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 11:21:43 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Hydra009

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 11:32:55 PM »
It's telling that the Bible being God's word is the default position and arguing otherwise is not only something that must be justified, one must also consider the (presumably substantial) possibility that it is in fact God's word.

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 11:52:20 PM »
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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.
I know the bible is not the word of god and that there is no god(s).  They are both fictions.  Did you ever consider that you could possibly be wrong about your belief that there is a god and that the bible is the word of that god?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2018, 01:32:59 AM »
Have you ever considered that Muhammad was God's chosen prophet? How about any of the countless thousands of gods you do not believe in, including the unlimited variations of that the Judeo-Christian god alone has available? Have you considered all of them? Any of them? Your religion offers nothing special that would justify special consideration.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Cavebear

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2018, 01:39:27 AM »
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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.

It is your claim, prove it!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 02:53:47 AM »
If it is his word, i doubt he's worth my time.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Offline aitm

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 08:45:18 AM »
If you wish to state that the babble is indeed the word of your god then, knowing that your god demanded that innocent babies be killed and little girls be raped, and you still champion said god, makes me think you are as sick a human as your god is as sick as a god.

If you wish to state that the babble is indeed the word of your god, then you have to admit that your god was completely inept in practically every attempt he made. For instance in more than one case it took him until the third try to defeat an opposing army at the lose of many lives of his "followers". A real god would not have lost even one soldier.

A real god would have convinced his followers that he was a real god and whenever he turned his back his followers would not have immediately fallen back into debauchery as if said god never really existed.

I can go and on......

A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 10:46:51 AM »
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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.
Why don't you prove it is the words of your imaginary god?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 11:21:58 AM »
Thanks for the responses.

@Shiranu - I agree that a god who is logically inconsistent is certainly a reasonable reason to dismiss that god.  But can you give some more details on why you think the God of the Bible is logically inconsistent?  I assume you're referring to the issue regarding suffering.  But I think God would actually be logically inconsistent if there wasn't suffering.  If God wasn't angry about people doing evil then He wouldn't be good.  If He rewarded or overlooked evil then He wouldn't be good.  If people never did evil but yet were suffering at the hand of God then there would certainly be reason to question God's goodness.  But I think us questioning God's goodness based on our suffering (or others) is sort of like a murderer who is suffering in prison accusing the judge who put him there of being evil.
Also, how do you know that the Bible is just Hebrew and Near East folklore and mythology?  Can you substantiate that claim?

@Hydra009 - I didn't mean to imply that it's the default position.  However, the Bible makes very serious claims about your eternal destiny so I don't see how it's something that can be dismissed without confidence that it isn't what it claims to be.  For example, somebody might come tell me that the train I'm about to board has ran out of pretzels.  Whether or not that person is telling me the truth doesn't really matter much, because it's not that big of a deal whether or not I get pretzels during my trip.  But if somebody tells me not to board the train because terrorists are on-board who are going to blow it up then I need to determine whether or not I should believe that message.  The Bible gives an infinitely more serious warning regarding your eternal destiny.

@Mike Cl - Can you provide the reason(s) why you know that the Bible is fiction?  And yes, of course, I've considered that the Bible isn't the Word of God.  I didn't come to know that it is what it claims to be until my 30s.

@Blackleaf - Yes, I have considered other religions and their claims.  The fact that there are many false claims about God is actually consistent with the Bible, since it warns throughout against this.  I have found that only the God of the Bible is logically consistent.  All other gods promise to overlook or reward evil.  Such gods can't actually be good.  But back to the question at hand...is your reason for dismissing the Bible that there are many religions? 

@Cavebear - I am happy to provide evidence, but as I said, the Bible makes very serious claims that impact you.  Unless you don't care if you suffer terribly forever you should have good reasons why you dismiss the claims.

@Mr.Obvious - Would it be correct to assume that this is based on the suffering you see in the world?

@aitm - I will address your first point for now  But could you cite the passage where God commanded little girls to be raped?  The people who God commanded to be killed were actually killing their own children (sacrificing them).  And yet God was still patient with them for many years before executing justice upon them.  As for the babies, it is certainly possible that God could've taken them to heaven, in which case they would not be upset in the least if their earthly lives were ended.  But regardless, the Bible doesn't view babies as innocent.  Everyone is born sinful, babies simply aren't able to express it like adults.  You've probably noticed that you don't need to teach children how to lie, steal, or be selfish.  But here's a question for you.  If a scorpion stung your child and you discovered that there was a nest of scorpions in your house would you only kill (or relocate) the scorpion that stung your child?  Would it be evil for you to kill the entire nest, including the babies?  It would be foolish for you not to kill (or remove) the babies because they hadn't done anything wrong yet.  You know what scorpions are, you don't have to wait for them to grow up...it is the same with sinners. 

 
 

Offline Hydra009

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 11:43:22 AM »
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I didn't mean to imply that it's the default position.
If you were simply asking why people say X, that would be one thing.  But the format of your "question" reveals a reversed burden of proof - that the negative claim must be justified while the positive claim apparently needs no justification.  This is a serious logical error.

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However, the Bible makes very serious claims about your eternal destiny so I don't see how it's something that can be dismissed without confidence that it isn't what it claims to be.
And how many other holy books with similarly very serious claims do you seriously consider?

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For example, somebody might come tell me that the train I'm about to board has ran out of pretzels.  Whether or not that person is telling me the truth doesn't really matter much, because it's not that big of a deal whether or not I get pretzels during my trip.  But if somebody tells me not to board the train because terrorists are on-board who are going to blow it up then I need to determine whether or not I should believe that message.  The Bible gives an infinitely more serious warning regarding your eternal destiny.
So, the more dire the claim, the more plausible the claim?

Offline Sal1981

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 11:54:57 AM »
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Hello. I assume that you would say that you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God, even if you might not say that you know there isn't a God. I'm hoping that you'll tell me why you are so confident that the Bible isn't what it claims to be (i.e., the Word of God). I'm also curious if you're open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your conclusion, especially considering that you've been wrong about things that you thought you were right about before (just like every other human). Thanks in advance for your response.
This applies to you as well. Who is to say that you're right about this god stuff?
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline aitm

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 11:59:53 AM »
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@aitm -But could you cite the passage where God commanded little girls to be raped?
No, it's in the babble, read the whole thing instead of just the versus your pastor reads to you.

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The people who God commanded to be killed were actually killing their own children (sacrificing them).

Bullshit, nothing in the babble describes those people as sacrificing their own babies.

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  And yet God was still patient with them for many years before executing justice upon them.
Bullshit, mere opinion. Nothing in the babble suggests such.

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As for the babies, it is certainly possible that God could've taken them to heaven, in which case they would not be upset in the least if their earthly lives were ended.

Bullshit, what kind of crap do you think we will buy into? You are just making shit up.

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But regardless, the Bible doesn't view babies as innocent.  Everyone is born sinful, babies simply aren't able to express it like adults.
Bullshit, only the new testament comes up with that crap, the rest of your argument is simple nonsense. 

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You've probably noticed that you don't need to teach children how to lie, steal, or be selfish.
Wow, quite the brilliant hypothesis there, the fact we have to teach children to share and be kind to your fellows is more evidence of our history through evolution than your monstrous god.

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  If a scorpion stung your child and you discovered that there was a nest of scorpions in your house would you only kill (or relocate) the scorpion that stung your child?  Would it be evil for you to kill the entire nest, including the babies?  It would be foolish for you not to kill (or remove) the babies because they hadn't done anything wrong yet.  You know what scorpions are, you don't have to wait for them to grow up...it is the same with sinners.
Wow again, that is the most moronic stupid comparison I have ever heard of. You must be the star of sunday school. Do they still give kool-aid and cookies when you sing songs?

 
 
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: How do you know the Bible isn't God's Word?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2018, 12:02:05 PM »
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@Blackleaf - Yes, I have considered other religions and their claims.

Somehow I doubt that you gave any other religion equally serious consideration as Christianity. You were raised as a Christian, weren't you? If you were raised a Muslim, you'd be just as certain in your religion as you are now.

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The fact that there are many false claims about God is actually consistent with the Bible, since it warns throughout against this.

The existence of other religions is evidence for your religion? That's a serious leap in logic there.

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I have found that only the God of the Bible is logically consistent.  All other gods promise to overlook or reward evil.  Such gods can't actually be good.

Other gods overlook and reward evil? What are you smoking? Your god doesn't reward good and punish evil. Your god punishes everyone who doesn't believe in him, and he rewards everyone who does believe in him. Good and evil have nothing to do with that. Matter of fact, your god conveniently considers every human being (who he designed himself, BTW) to be inherently flawed and deserving of Hell by default. The only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus, in which case he will IGNORE the evil in you. You know what other religion uses belief as the only criteria for salvation? Islam. No thanks. I wouldn't worship a god who thinks that gullibility and luck in choosing the right religion are more important than goodwill toward fellow human beings.

Furthermore, what does any of this have to do with logic? God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself? How is that logical?

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But back to the question at hand...is your reason for dismissing the Bible that there are many religions?

My list of reasons for my lack of belief in the Bible and the Christian God grows longer every year. Here are a few:

1. I do not believe in anything without evidence. In fact, if you have evidence, it isn't belief any more. It is simply acknowledging the facts. So beliefs supported by evidence logically cannot exist.

2. The Bible is inconsistent within itself. I mean, Jesus, the first two chapters of Genesis don't even agree with each other.

3. The Bible is inconsistent with several fields of science. From the age of the earth to how censuses are made, the Bible has been repeatedly shown to be wrong.

4. Omnipotence and omniscience are incompatible with free will, which has some serious consequences. If God is not omnipotent, then evil is the result of his failure of a design. If God is not omniscient, then evil was an unpredictable consequence of his design, and he is fallible just like every other human being. If God is both omniscient and omnipotent, then he purposefully designed the world to be full of evil, and he is necessarily malevolent. Take a look at Romans 9, where Paul addressed this problem. He said that there is no free will. We are predestined for Heaven or Hell, before we are even born. And his solution to the problem of evil is hilarious. "Who are you to talk back to God?" Wow. Just wow. So God will do whatever he wants with us, and we're just supposed to accept it.

5. The God of the Bible is evil. Imagine if there were a superhero with the same moral compass as the Christian God. Just imagine Superman standing outside a bank that is being robbed.

Chief: "Superman, why are you just standing there?"

Superman: "They haven't asked for my help yet. I won't help until they ask me to help them."

"They don't even know you're here! How could they? Besides, you could just swoop in and save everyone in an instant! Why do you need permission?"

"I will not interfere with free will."

Lois Lane: "Help, Superman!"

Chief: "Listen! One of the hostages called for you! Aren't you going to help her?"

Superman: "In my good and perfect timing."

*Gun shot*

"Oh my god! They shot one of the hostages! Why aren't you helping them!?"

"Look, you've just got to trust that I know what's best."

"Best? How is any good going to come from this? One of the hostages is dead!"

"Now he is in a better place, where he will no longer suffer. You can thank me later."

"Oh, gee! Thank you, Superman for allowing an innocent man to be shot to death! You know what? Fuck it. We're going in. Waiting for you to help is like waiting for random chance to fall in our favor. It's like you don't even exist or something!"

Cop: "Uh, Chief...? Who are you talking to?"
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 01:02:52 PM by Blackleaf »
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

 

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