Author Topic: Toxic Masculinity  (Read 3025 times)

Offline Shiranu

Toxic Masculinity
« on: March 02, 2018, 07:42:42 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And no, this is not an assault on men; it's actually a video addressing the sexism directed towards men by society and it's consequences.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Online Munch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 08:09:52 PM »
Actually, seemed like it was a passive aggressive poke at masculinity on cutting down men on aspects that make men.. Men.

Having overly aggressive male figures slapping you around the head for not displaying masculine traits and not playing with army men is indeed toxic masculinity. However this seemed to just be outright claiming an assertive masculine behavior is a bad thing, which is bullshit, try going into the army with that more soft, passive tone, they put recruits though the ringer with strong, aggressive training to toughen them up.

Also claiming that feminism isn't an assault on mens right, got one image for you.



But maybe what you need right now is a nice glass of soy.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 08:23:06 PM by Munch »

Offline Shiranu

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 08:25:52 PM »
I'm sorry you feel that way.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Online Munch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 08:43:06 PM »
Where's feeling come into it? I mean this seems a step up for you, since the video had a lot of to-and-fro on where she was going, but ultimately she didn't draw anything about the positive of assertive masculine behavior.

lets suppose I put up a video on toxic femininity.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Now I can give examples of the positives of strong female characteristics, the kind of impact a figure like wonder woman has on people, she's assertive and feminine, and having strong female role models in culture helps people, not just women, but people in general.

The problem with the video you posted is it didn't give any examples showing where stronger, assertive masculine roles fits, instead just passing the concept off as being bad despite originally coming off as if she's supportive of men, yeah, just what she defines as men.

its just as well i like female characters in movies, comics, games and tv shows of any level of assertive behavior, because hating of one type of woman because she's to assertive would limit my character list.

The same should go for men, enjoying male characters of any level of assertive or passive behavior
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 08:55:33 PM by Munch »

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 09:48:51 PM »
Women have been putting down other women and calling them sluts for a long ass time.

Offline Baruch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 11:27:34 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm sorry you feel that way.

There is a such a thing as toxic masculinity.  Boys, girls, women ... and male coworkers suffer by it.  But it is the politically driven Feminism, the identity politics kind ... that is objectionable, for political reasons.  The idea that women don't ever misbehave is ... naive.  It would be misogynist to think that all such misbehavior is proof that women need to be more masculine.  Don't take butch dykes seriously, as politics.  As people, sure, if you are into that.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 11:31:17 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Women have been putting down other women and calling them sluts for a long ass time.

Yes, the matriarchy is so ... weak.  Actually it is quite powerful, but uses careful disguise.  Feminine wiles.  The idea that all men, even most men, are misogynists is ridiculous.  Same as the idea that all women, even most women, are misandrists.  Don't take the person who should be on Freud's couch, as typical, or as someone who should be an archetype for the rest of society.  Per Freud, that would mean most of us would need to be upper class Viennese Jewish women from 100 years ago.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 03:24:53 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yes, the matriarchy is so ... weak.  Actually it is quite powerful, but uses careful disguise.  Feminine wiles.  The idea that all men, even most men, are misogynists is ridiculous.  Same as the idea that all women, even most women, are misandrists.  Don't take the person who should be on Freud's couch, as typical, or as someone who should be an archetype for the rest of society.  Per Freud, that would mean most of us would need to be upper class Viennese Jewish women from 100 years ago.

I put myself out of the game years ago.  Too much trouble.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Munch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 06:04:27 AM »
Fact of the matter is, toxic behavior exists in any aspect of society. Toxic masculinity, toxic femininity, toxic parenting, toxic teaching, toxic government, toxic political bias, toxic social justice, it exists in all walks and just because someone adheres and follows an aspect of society doesn't mean what they follow can't have toxic elements in it, it does, its the nature of the humanity to have toxic people in it.

Offline pr126

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 06:55:06 AM »
Down with alpha males!
Soyboys rule OK

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Offline Baruch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 08:44:33 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Fact of the matter is, toxic behavior exists in any aspect of society. Toxic masculinity, toxic femininity, toxic parenting, toxic teaching, toxic government, toxic political bias, toxic social justice, it exists in all walks and just because someone adheres and follows an aspect of society doesn't mean what they follow can't have toxic elements in it, it does, its the nature of the humanity to have toxic people in it.

Correct, we are retard but don't need to go full retard.  And focusing too much on the negative, turns one to nihilism.
שלום

Offline Shiranu

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 09:54:00 AM »
So the recurring argument is that women are toxic too... therefor, it's okay? It shouldn't be discussed?

Yes, there is "toxic femininity", and it's something feminists are against as well. But that is about as relevant as the price of tea in China.

Quote
However this seemed to just be outright claiming an assertive masculine behavior is a bad thing, which is bullshit...

When that "assertive masculine behaviour" is manifesting in the overwhelming majority of mass shooters being male, being raised to think that sex is something you are "owed" or expected to have or you are a failure (which leads to significant numbers of women harmed and killed by men who have been brainwashed into obsessing over getting into their pants) or when it's shaming men for not "looking like, talking like, walking like, etc." how a man should look, talk, or walk right and increases suicide rates... yes, that is "assertive masculine behaviour" being a bad thing.

When it leads to men being too ashamed to admit they are victims of domestic abuse, of being victims of sexual abuse, of having mental disorders like depression but being too ashamed to seek help for it because men don't get beat by their wives, don't get raped, don't have emotions, yes... that is "assertive masculine behaviour" being a bad thing.

Quote
...try going into the army with that more soft, passive tone, they put recruits though the ringer with strong, aggressive training to toughen them up.

Okay? Not every man joins the army and is trained to be a killer, so that's not a type of toughening up that is particularly relevant to the majority of men.

Secondly, I would argue the training the military provides is not masculine by nature, because both contemporary and historically there have been women who have been more than capable soldiers. I know plenty of women in the armed forces, and I don't think of any of them, post boot camp, as being particularly masculine. Does that mean they are bad soldiers? I doubt it, I think it just means the military doesn't train people to be "men", it trains them to be "soldiers".
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Offline Baruch

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 10:00:49 AM »
Aw ... but what is a man and what is a woman?  Are these not arbitrary designations, like all other vocabulary words?  Aren't some men feminine and other women are masculine?  If so, then the masculine behavior of a woman, or the feminine behavior of a man ... means we can't make assumptions based on outward appearances.  Toxic masculinity man be in either a man or a woman.

If people are against negative aspects of human behavior (easier to define than psychology) then good for them.  That is called being ethical or moral.  That is necessary, but not sufficient.  We should be for positive aspects of human behavior as well.
שלום

Offline Shiranu

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 11:03:44 AM »
Toxic masculinity is specifically men vs men, so that means men who identify as men or that society identifies as men.

That statement does not mean that other genders cant hold those viewpoints, it merely means that this is a problem that exists between two men. Society as a whole certainly holds toxic masculine views towards men, but that is not what we are talking about.

It's why we don't look at sexism against women and say, "Well, women can be sexist towards themselves too!". Yes, yes they can. But that is not what we are talking about. It's like talking about violence in inner city African American communities and saying, "Rural white people have problems with corporations destroying their farming life style too!". By all means, they do and that's great to address it... but it should be addressed as it's own issue, and not as a way to silence someone else's problems.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Offline Mermaid

Re: Toxic Masculinity
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2018, 11:21:10 AM »
Toxic masculinity does not infer that masculinity is toxic.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk