Author Topic: The Black Panther Movie  (Read 2893 times)

Offline Hydra009

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2018, 01:00:10 PM »
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it needs some explaining to how a place like that in a poor nation like africa can become what it is, not just the metal the nation is built over.
Marvel has a lot of locales that seem to defy explanation.  Latveria is another example of an isolated country that somehow still manages to build and support oodles of high-tech gear.  Antarctica has the Savage Lands, a tropical region where dinosaurs roam.  There's a breathable, habitable area on the moon.

Over the years, I've learned to not seek a rational explanation for this stuff.  Suspension of disbelief.  I don't ask why these places exist any more than I ask where the energy for Cyclops's optic blasts comes from or how Wolverine is still standing after losing gallons of blood from repeated injuries during a fight.

The Watsonian explanation is that some writer thought it would be cool.

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2018, 02:06:32 PM »
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Marvel has a lot of locales that seem to defy explanation.  Latveria is another example of an isolated country that somehow still manages to build and support oodles of high-tech gear.  Antarctica has the Savage Lands, a tropical region where dinosaurs roam.  There's a breathable, habitable area on the moon.

Over the years, I've learned to not seek a rational explanation for this stuff.  Suspension of disbelief.  I don't ask why these places exist any more than I ask where the energy for Cyclops's optic blasts comes from or how Wolverine is still standing after losing gallons of blood from repeated injuries during a fight.

The Watsonian explanation is that some writer thought it would be cool.

My recollection is that Victor von Doom was a child of his poor country, not a product of it.  He achieved his skills entirely on his own (failed college experiment etc).  Ka-Zar has no special tech.  The moon was only habitable for the Skrulls and those plant creatures because The Watcher made it so temporarily. 

I go back a ways...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Munch

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2018, 02:49:05 PM »
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My recollection is that Victor von Doom was a child of his poor country, not a product of it.  He achieved his skills entirely on his own (failed college experiment etc).  Ka-Zar has no special tech.  The moon was only habitable for the Skrulls and those plant creatures because The Watcher made it so temporarily. 

I go back a ways...

The savage land having all the tech its had over the years, i put that down to those coming from outside bringing it in. Wasn't mr sinister staged there for a time? And year Ka-zar was set in the savage land but he left the land often or became allies to outsiders like the x-men, so there was a go between both sides.

As for Doom, like you say he built himself up, and given the kinds of tech he'd steal that can explain Latveria's technological advancement, he is also a super genius so simply aquiring resources around the world for his countries growth would give reason to why.

This is kinda what I mean, theres reasons why something happens in context, and within a universe like marvel it often needs a explanation to make it sound. Years ago i got a great book called the science of the x-men.



it wasn't to deep in terms of scientific expansion, but it provided some good points for how certain powers function based on physics and reasonable understanding of forces. For example shadowcat's phasing ability on the basis of vibration and string theory, her physical form vibrating to such intensity it phases though structures on a molecule basis.

That example of how within something like marvel there are laws of reason to how things work. Using another example of something similar, in the game world of warcraft, one of the newest factions in the game, the nightborne elves, had lived in a bubbled city for ten thousand years, obviously this is a setting of magic, so that explains how they can live so long, but when you go to the nightborne elves city of suramar, now that the bubble has come down after all that time, you notice around how they functioned, by tapping into arcane fonts and arcane waters to produce foods, they were able to be self sustaining with the city without needing the outside world, they didn't require things like sunlight to grow crops for food, as they survived on arcane energy. Because they are a race that can live off of arcane energy instead of food like humans can, it explains and gives context to how they could live in a contain city.

wakanda however, the people living there are human, not mutants or super beings, just regular people. They'd need food and supplies. Having local flora and fawner might help this, but taking the real worlds examples, the most powerful nations on earth grow and become technologically advanced because of things like international trade, supply and demand, and even underhanded and dirty tactics. America having its hands on oil fields from other countries, dirty as it might be to remember, helps america and similar powerful countries grow.

When something is this bold in statement, saying something like wakanda is the most technologically advance place on earth, I would beg why. If they say 'well its because of the vibranium supplies they trade and became insanely rich because of it', Thats believable, I can buy that, they could become so rich from it, they can afford to have their nation cut off from the world while still having trade with it. But in claiming its been shut off from the world the way it has all this time, I just wonder how any of that makes sense?


Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2018, 04:09:13 PM »
c-o-m-i-c b-o-o-k m-o-v-i-e-s
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2018, 12:40:09 AM »
Just saw the movie. It was well done with a good combination of style, action, characterization and a decent plot. As far as Wakanda, it was more plausible then magics of Dr. Strange or the Asgardians, which are in the same Marvel universe. Wakanda is hidden, not isolated, and they have had agents all over the world supplying intelligence. Vibranium isn't just valuable, it's an extraterrestrial energy source that has multiple properties.

Anyway, if you like superhero movies it is a good one.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2018, 01:06:33 AM »
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Just saw the movie. It was well done with a good combination of style, action, characterization and a decent plot. As far as Wakanda, it was more plausible then magics of Dr. Strange or the Asgardians, which are in the same Marvel universe. Wakanda is hidden, not isolated, and they have had agents all over the world supplying intelligence. Vibranium isn't just valuable, it's an extraterrestrial energy source that has multiple properties.

Anyway, if you like superhero movies it is a good one.

I have no doubt the movie is well done, well-acted, and entirely consistent in its own world.  But my question was how a super-technology nation, never involved in slavery, never involved in rather evil European colonialization, relates to African-Americans as it seems to.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2018, 01:44:32 AM »
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I have no doubt the movie is well done, well-acted, and entirely consistent in its own world.  But my question was how a super-technology nation, never involved in slavery, never involved in rather evil European colonialization, relates to African-Americans as it seems to.

One of the major conflicts in the movie is the Wakandans had the ability to help Africans taken into slavery or give black people in the US the power to fight oppression but sat back and did nothing. They hoarded their technology and protected their culture. The antagonist is an African-American whose violent nature is a result of the Wakandan's choices. The oppressed becomes the oppressor.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline SGOS

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2018, 03:54:06 AM »
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I have no doubt the movie is well done, well-acted, and entirely consistent in its own world.  But my question was how a super-technology nation, never involved in slavery, never involved in rather evil European colonialization, relates to African-Americans as it seems to.
First, possibly the most minor of points.  If such a civilization existed, it relates to Africans, not African Americans.  Africans transported across the ocean and sold into slavery would experience a major upheaval in culture that separates them from their true heritage.  Second, Wakanda is an anomaly, uncharacteristic of African nations, or any other nation on Earth.  It has advanced beyond the dreams and expectations of any civilization.  It's pure modern day mythology like Thor and Dr. Strange, both of which can be and have been criticized by the pedants within the comic book culture.

But the very purpose of Marvel and other comics is to create mythology.  It makes no attempt at being believable.  If it did, it would fall outside the scope and purpose of comic books and be classified as more mainstream literature that is designed to please those who prefer not to suspend their belief.  Comic books are unreal, preposterous, and absurd.  All of the comics are that way, and a comic book fan who would draw an arbitrary line that in their mind that separates the unreal from the preposterous may miss the point.  They obviously understand the joy of the unreal, but insert limits of their own that seem to me to be contrary to the spirit of the thing.

I have intelligent friends that wouldn't give Marvel movies the time of day.  They wouldn't even check one out to see what all the fuss is about, and if they did, they would hate it, or at least say they hate it based on some principle.  On the other hand, academia has experts in mythology, who love their field.  They understand mythology, but don't actually believe it.  They recognize it for what it is, and don't get upset over specific absurdities.

One last thing.  Comics may not be as compatible with reality as more mainstream literature, but they do make more sense than one specific type of mainstream literature, which has found a niche and is accepted by the literary elite.  Stream of conscience style can get pretty far out there, and in addition to testing the limits of reality, it can be so disconnected that it makes no sense at all.

 Gawdzilla Sama nailed it:  c-o-m-i-c b-o-o-k m-o-v-i-e-s

Offline Shiranu

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2018, 03:56:47 AM »
If Wakanda offends your sense of realisticisity but Asgard, the X-Men, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. don't then I don't think it's actually how realistic it is or isn't that offends you.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2018, 04:08:00 AM »
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If Wakanda offends your sense of realisticisity but Asgard, the X-Men, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. don't then I don't think it's actually how realistic it is or isn't that offends you.

I will certainly be interested to watch the movie when it eventually shows up on basic cable.  The movie sure doesn't offend me in any way.  I just read some interesting questions about it that I wanted to ask you all about.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Munch

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2018, 06:13:15 AM »
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If Wakanda offends your sense of realisticisity but Asgard, the X-Men, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. don't then I don't think it's actually how realistic it is or isn't that offends you.


Offline Cavebear

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2018, 08:20:39 AM »
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Its not the realism, but the interpretation.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2018, 11:37:17 AM »
Saw it yesterday.  Meh.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Draconic Aiur

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2018, 01:17:29 PM »
Too political and I give it a 6.5/10

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Black Panther Movie
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2018, 02:40:55 PM »
That was about what I expected.  Big hype.  Fast fall-off in moviegoers.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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