Does the media love mass shooting?

[Coveny]

Greetings Amoeba, LOL!  If AITM vouches for you, welcome. We DO get some strange new people here, so it is good to check.

Thanks.

Just to qualify that I wouldn't say AITM "vouches for me", just that I did not break the forum rules.

[Coveny]

Please give sources for the claims in 1, 2, 3, and 4.  Your claims sound like straight off the NRA talking points. Your energetic claims mean nothing with some backup.  5 gets you way of topic and is really a bit off the rails, but you might want to address those as a separate post.

I link the exact number of sources for my claims as you did for your claims...

I disagree #5 is the topic, mass shootings is a symptom of that topic.

[Cavebear]

Everyone is capable of murder, we're just discussing the factors that bring them to commit the act.

That is laughable.  No, we aren't discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder.  That is psychirty.  What we are discussing is HOW people commit murder.  And generally, it is with guns.  I can't recall the last time  in my lifetime a crazed knife-wielder (or a musket-owner for that matter), killed more than a couple people.

[Baruch]

Everyone is capable of murder, we're just discussing the factors that bring them to commit the act.

People do everything for psychological reasons.  What feeds psychology?  Murder is externalized suicide, suicide is internalized murder ... why do people commit suicide?  I have had to deal with one suicide in my family, and one attempted suicide.  Another family member died in suspicious circumstances, so it may have been murder.  Another family member, died "by cop".  The oldest grandson of my rabbi, was nearly killed by a shooter he knew, just a few months ago.  Every one of these had unique circumstances.  I don't see any generalization that will explain it all, other than something facile like ... Americans are murderers.

Using politics or economics as an explanation go to ... is what one would expect with a Marxist, just saying.  Revolutions are rare events, not unlike volcanic eruptions.  If you are poor, or badly parented ... does that excuse you?  Sounds like identity politics to me ;-(

[Coveny]

Coveny, I agree with most of your points but I don't see evidence to support mass shootings are a direct result of economic problems or wealth inequity. The Vegas shooter was a wealthy real estate investor, the Sandy Hook shooter was diagnosed and treated for mental health problems, the Pulse nightclub shooter was explicitly clear he was religiously motivated, the Columbine shooters were sociopaths, juvenile felons and received treatment for mental health problems.  Dylan Roof may have believed blacks are victimizing whites but his main concern was "you rape our women", so he walked into a church and murdered nine black people. I'm just not seeing economic concerns, poor education or lack of access to healthcare as predictors of mass shootings.

You mention mental health issues... but access to healthcare isn't relevant?
You say the vegas shooter was "wealthy"... but 3 million isn't enough to retire on so he's not
https://esimoney.com/3-million-not-enough-retire/
We have racism, sexism, etc based killing... but poor education isn't an issue?

If you look at the whole problem rather than just a part of it, it all comes back to wealth inequality. The poor fighting the poor over the scrapes that the wealthy haven't hoarded... yet. Creating a tension that is destroying this country. 99% of the population is angry and frustrated in a situation they see no way out of, so some unsurprisingly turn to violence.

[Baruch]

That is laughable.  No, we aren't discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder.  That is psychirty.  What we are discussing is HOW people commit murder.  And generally, it is with guns.  I can't recall the last time  in my lifetime a crazed knife-wielder (or a musket-owner for that matter), killed more than a couple people.

True ... but the solution is to lock everyone up, guilty until proven innocent (won't happen)?  Micro-management of the population, what isn't to like?

[Baruch]

You mention mental health issues... but access to healthcare isn't relevant?
You say the vegas shooter was "wealthy"... but 3 million isn't enough to retire on so he's not
https://esimoney.com/3-million-not-enough-retire/
We have racism, sexism, etc based killing... but poor education isn't an issue?

If you look at the whole problem rather than just a part of it, it all comes back to wealth inequality. The poor fighting the poor over the scrapes that the wealthy haven't hoarded... yet. Creating a tension that is destroying this country. 99% of the population is angry and frustrated in a situation they see no way out of, so some unsurprisingly turn to violence.

Lack of education produces bigots?  How Middle Class of you.  The US should burn, we are 5% of the population consuming 25% of the planet.  Marxists agree that Capitalism has to go, we need all-seeing commissars.

[Atheon]

Mass shootings are big news, and so they get reported. The responses to them generate controversy and discussion, which also get reported.

Nothing surprising. Big news is big news.

[GSOgymrat]

You clearly have this all figured out, so anything other than agreeing with you would be a waste of my time.

[Cavebear]

People do everything for psychological reasons.  What feeds psychology?  Murder is externalized suicide, suicide is internalized murder ... why do people commit suicide?  I have had to deal with one suicide in my family, and one attempted suicide.  Another family member died in suspicious circumstances, so it may have been murder.  Another family member, died "by cop".  The oldest grandson of my rabbi, was nearly killed by a shooter he knew, just a few months ago.  Every one of these had unique circumstances.  I don't see any generalization that will explain it all, other than something facile like ... Americans are murderers.

Using politics or economics as an explanation go to ... is what one would expect with a Marxist, just saying.  Revolutions are rare events, not unlike volcanic eruptions.  If you are poor, or badly parented ... does that excuse you?  Sounds like identity politics to me ;-(

I appreciate and do care about your family history.   My family has had its own problems, but not those.  Not suggesting it is genetic in any way.  It is probably sad random events. 

But what were the means?  Would they have died if no guns were easily available?  Few people stab themselves to death.  And don't jest bout Lizzie Borden or Brutus please, my patience with you is wearing thin.

Who kills themselves in the loneliness of the night with a carving knif?.  Sure they CAN, but it isn't common.  Guns making killing others or self just too much easier.

[Mike Cl]

I did have a Facebook page one time, but closed it down.  I got tired of reading stuff from friends of friends talking to my other friends, even though I mostly agreed.  I guess I could have shut some of that clutter off, but I didn't find any of it interesting.  I'm also not particularly interested in knowing what people I barely know anymore are doing with their lives, nor was I interested in keeping everyone else informed of my daily life.  I don't need a lot of human contact.  This forum is the only one I participate in.  It's enough for all the contact I need, and supplies enough opportunity to discuss different topics with people I mostly like.  My friends usually tell me when something happens to someone I know on Facebook, because people like to talk about each other.  But it's usually kind of gossipy, and it makes me uncomfortable.

I had a facebook page for about a week.  I grew more and more bored with the whole thing and just stopped visiting it or going on facebook.  I guess it may still be there--don't care enough to find out.

[Cavebear]

You clearly have this all figured out, so anything other than agreeing with you would be a waste of my time.

Unless you have something to add...

[GSOgymrat]

Guns making killing others or self just too much easier.

Access to lethal means is a major factor in completed suicides. Imagine having a suicide pill in your medicine cabinet or a button hidden in your closet that would instantly end your life whenever you were ready to give up. That is what a gun is.

[Cavebear]

Mass shootings are big news, and so they get reported. The responses to them generate controversy and discussion, which also get reported.

Nothing surprising. Big news is big news.

I think you have it a bit wrong.  School shootings get reported because they are horrible effects of our gun culture and because they are happening to often. 

So that Gun-lovers can shoot AR-15s in sport".  What is more valuable?  Children or sport?

[Coveny]

That is laughable.  No, we aren't discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder.  That is psychirty.  What we are discussing is HOW people commit murder.  And generally, it is with guns.  I can't recall the last time  in my lifetime a crazed knife-wielder (or a musket-owner for that matter), killed more than a couple people.

I'm discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder, and it's more than psychiatry, and what the choose to do it with shouldn't matter.

As far as the side topic of how people commit murder, and the claim it's "generally with guns". Rather than going with the obvious one (Bombings) I'll go with the one that is killing millions (not thousands) of people a year and no one is talking about.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-03/medical-errors-are-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-us
People are generally killed by doctors. BAN DOCTORS!!!!

But even if we just look at just homicide rates (which isn't fair to guns because it isn't the whole crime story) "with guns" versus "without guns" where they have been banned for a long time it doesn't stack up well:
http://igeek.com/w/U.S._vs_U.K._-_Crime/Murder