Does the media love mass shooting?

Started by Coveny, February 23, 2018, 06:34:04 PM

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Cavebear

Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2018, 08:24:47 AM
I did not recognize you and failed to check your previous history. I indeed acted hastily. You may restore your siggy and my apologies.

How about we not put websites in our sigs at all.  They seem mostly like ads.  And ads don't influence me but they can be annoying...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

SGOS

Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
How about we not put websites in our sigs at all.  They seem mostly like ads.  And ads don't influence me but they can be annoying...
Shit.  Now I'll have to build myself a website, and I don't even have a Facebook page.

Cavebear

Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2018, 09:09:11 AM
Shit.  Now I'll have to build myself a website, and I don't even have a Facebook page.

I'm not on any media other than here (I suppose) and a blog.  I don't miss the constant connections.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

SGOS

Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 09:56:25 AM
I'm not on any media other than here (I suppose) and a blog.  I don't miss the constant connections.
I did have a Facebook page one time, but closed it down.  I got tired of reading stuff from friends of friends talking to my other friends, even though I mostly agreed.  I guess I could have shut some of that clutter off, but I didn't find any of it interesting.  I'm also not particularly interested in knowing what people I barely know anymore are doing with their lives, nor was I interested in keeping everyone else informed of my daily life.  I don't need a lot of human contact.  This forum is the only one I participate in.  It's enough for all the contact I need, and supplies enough opportunity to discuss different topics with people I mostly like.  My friends usually tell me when something happens to someone I know on Facebook, because people like to talk about each other.  But it's usually kind of gossipy, and it makes me uncomfortable.

Cavebear

Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
I did have a Facebook page one time, but closed it down.  I got tired of reading stuff from friends of friends talking to my other friends, even though I mostly agreed.  I guess I could have shut some of that clutter off, but I didn't find any of it interesting.  I'm also not particularly interested in knowing what people I barely know anymore are doing with their lives, nor was I interested in keeping everyone else informed of my daily life.  I don't need a lot of human contact.  This forum is the only one I participate in.  It's enough for all the contact I need, and supplies enough opportunity to discuss different topics with people I mostly like.  My friends usually tell me when something happens to someone I know on Facebook, because people like to talk about each other.  But it's usually kind of gossipy, and it makes me uncomfortable.

I expect we are mostly alike in that here.  Constant gossipy social chatter isn't what I need.  I do fine in my own mind most of the time.  But there are issues I care about, and I care about them mostly from a rational non-religious POV!

Hurray!  We have found people like US!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Coveny

Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2018, 08:24:47 AM
I did not recognize you and failed to check your previous history. I indeed acted hastily. You may restore your siggy and my apologies.

Thank you very much.
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Cavebear

Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 11:24:53 AM
Thank you very much.

Greetings Amoeba, LOL!  If AITM vouches for you, welcome. We DO get some strange new people here, so it is good to check.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Coveny

Quote from: Blackleaf on February 23, 2018, 09:12:50 PM
The media isn't about reporting facts any more, unfortunately. They're about trying to capture your attention and get good ratings. Despite the world being safer than it has ever been, they have people paranoid that a random terrorist could take them out at any second.

Agreed. Are you familiar with the fact like 6 companies control the mainstream media?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStpvviPgxk

So if we take that into consideration we could go a little conspiracy theory and say that there is a method to their madness that goes beyond getting good ratings. It could be a case of using Huxley's book as a field guide on how to control the masses. Or simply a case of having a small group of topics which are hotly debated to keep the masses distracted.
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Coveny

Quote from: Cavebear on February 24, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
 
Americans are not "sick of it" so much as they are sick of gun fnatics defending their right to own mass destrucyion guns.

So what are the defenses of the gun fanatics?

"We have a right to bear arms"  Yes, those were muskets.  Own all the muskets you want.  Let's get rid of all the guns the FOUNDERS DIDN'T contemplate.

"Guns protect us".  No, you are more likely to die by a gun if you own one.

"Schools should have teachers bearing guns".  No, teachers are not mindset to kill children.  I thought back to all my high school teachers and the only one I would trust to actually fight back ws nearly blind and couldn't hit a barn wall from inside one.

"We need to harden our schools".  Yeah, metal detectors.  Do you know of any school backpack that would pass a metal detector?  That would be airport mentality every day for every student.  You want to guess the cost to do that financially and psychologically? 

"Secure the school outside "Any security system can be thwarted.  There is no way around the fire alarm, no way around the confusion at changes of classes. no way around someone arranging a firedoor to be taped unlocked. 

"More security guards".  The security guard at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School was afraid to enter the building.  He knew he was outgunned.  That was an act of cowardice, but he didn't want to die.  Brave people cost more and we can't afford them (sadly).

I imagine there can be more objections to the NRA dreams, but that is a start.

I didn't really want to make this a debate about should we are should be not have guns but I'll give you a general rebuttal on your points.

1) Banning Guns is the solution
You may believe that control is effective, but there is a lot of research that proves it is not. Australia ban on guns worked for a few years while the black market built their infrastructure to import guns into the country. The already have more rape than we do, and murder, and other various crimes are rising. If you look at countries where it’s been in place for a long time like the U.K. you’ll find that murder, rape, assault, burglary are all higher than they are in the U.S. Plus countries like Switzerland that have a very high gun ownership rate (as opposed to guns per capita which is the general bar used to give the U.S. big numbers) have very lower murder, rape, assault, burglary that most of the globe.

2) Armed people don’t stop/lower body counts
The basis of this meme is that there were bodyguards and Reagan still got shot, so having armed bodyguards won’t help against an armed gunman. It only takes a little bit of critical thinking to know that the cops (armed bodyguards) will be called to deal with the situation, so armed bodyguards are the solution to lowering and stopping nutjobs with guns. (as is the case with Reagan) Every world leader (including the pope) has armed guards protecting them because it works, and gun free zones don’t.

3) Arming teachers
I strongly disagree with forcing anyone to carry a gun that doesn’t want to carry a gun, but there are plenty of teachers in this country who want to carry guns to school but can’t because they are gun free zones. So the concept shouldn’t be that we are forcing teachers to carry guns, but that we allow teachers the right to carry guns if they so choose, and put laws in place to protect their right to defend children from an active shooter situation.

4) Mass shootings are a huge problem
In 2014 606 died in mass shootings. Now can't stand children dying but the hypocrisy of getting upset over 600 people dying when we are killing 100s of thousand a year in other countries simply pisses me off. Of the horrible things that happen in this country mass shootings affect a very small portion of the population. We have millions of children … MILLIONS… who don’t know where their next meal is going to come from and this is year after year, and the number just keeps growing year after year. There are other things, but how much mainstream media time does that get in comparison with mass shootings? Next to nothing, because that wouldn’t divide this country and make the poor fight the poor, THAT would address the REAL cause of mass shootings… wealth inequality is out of control in this country!


5) Mass shootings are a symptom of economic problems
Let’s look at the big three that leads to mass shootings.

  • A) Education funding continues to shrink. This directly relates to s****y teachers (you think the best and the brightest want to live in poverty?), s****y schools (no AC in the south? Seriously?), no counselors (or even training on helping fucked up kids), etc.
    B) Health care is insane. This means that children who need mental help adjusting won’t get the treatment they need. It means parents won’t get the help they need. And that’s not just mental health (which we continue to put known crazy people on the street to fend for themselves) that also includes physical as well.
    C) No money means no future. You don’t think children can see how bleak their future is? (millennials aren’t having children because they can’t afford it) You don’t think both their parents working at least one, and sometimes two jobs to pay the bills isn’t screwing them up? You don’t think that seeing no one you know being able to afford to retire doesn’t mess with people’s heads? Most people will work until they die, or they’ll be forced to live off cat food, and hope that they don’t need lifesaving medical attention.

Look I’m for FBI background checks, and proof of ID, and those things are in place already. I even support a practical test to prove that you can hit what you are aiming at which isn’t in place, but “gun control” or taking away guns isn't the solution. Fully automatics are already illegal. Silencers are illegal. And we continue to write new gun laws every year limiting guns further and further while we write legislation that gives the rich more money, and makes life harder for 99% of the population. But the media wants you to focus on guns while our corrupt government turns everyone into debt slaves, and screws this country over for personal gain. Don’t tell me it’s just the republicans, or just the democrats or whatever, it doesn’t matter what face the rich elite use they continue to screw this over this country not “for the people” anymore, it's for the rich elite. To do it, they have to keep us distracted…
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Baruch

Americans are murderers.  Just ask the Native or African-Americans ;-(  It can't be cured ... no social problems can be, except thru extermination of the whole population.  We don't have problems with Babylonian temple prostitutes anymore, because there are no more Babylonians.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 11:49:59 AM
I didn't really want to make this a debate about should we are should be not have guns but I'll give you a general rebuttal on your points.

1) Banning Guns is the solution
2) Armed people don’t stop/lower body counts
3) Arming teachers
4) Mass shootings are a huge problem
5) Mass shootings are a symptom of economic problems


Please give sources for the claims in 1, 2, 3, and 4.  Your claims sound like straight off the NRA talking points. Your energetic claims mean nothing with some backup.  5 gets you way of topic and is really a bit off the rails, but you might want to address those as a separate post.

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
Americans are murderers.  Just ask the Native or African-Americans ;-(  It can't be cured ... no social problems can be, except thru extermination of the whole population.  We don't have problems with Babylonian temple prostitutes anymore, because there are no more Babylonians.

First, your initial statement is utterly incorrect.  Most Americans are NOT murderers.  If you mean the past, so were all people everywhere much of time.  History was brutal sometimes everywhere.

No, most of the really lethal weapons are owned by 3%  of the population.  And most of the lethal shooters buy them legally or steal them from relatives who did. 

That can be stopped.  I'll toss in my old 12 shotgun )sitting in the basement closet for years into a melting pot if others will, and I mean everyone.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Coveny

Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
Americans are murderers.  Just ask the Native or African-Americans ;-(  It can't be cured ... no social problems can be, except thru extermination of the whole population.  We don't have problems with Babylonian temple prostitutes anymore, because there are no more Babylonians.

Everyone is capable of murder, we're just discussing the factors that bring them to commit the act.
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GSOgymrat

Coveny, I agree with most of your points but I don't see evidence to support mass shootings are a direct result of economic problems or wealth inequity. The Vegas shooter was a wealthy real estate investor, the Sandy Hook shooter was diagnosed and treated for mental health problems, the Pulse nightclub shooter was explicitly clear he was religiously motivated, the Columbine shooters were sociopaths, juvenile felons and received treatment for mental health problems.  Dylan Roof may have believed blacks are victimizing whites but his main concern was "you rape our women", so he walked into a church and murdered nine black people. I'm just not seeing economic concerns, poor education or lack of access to healthcare as predictors of mass shootings.

Coveny

Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
How about we not put websites in our sigs at all.  They seem mostly like ads.  And ads don't influence me but they can be annoying...

Hopefully this won't get flagged again, but I'll try to explain how I feel about it. (I use a blog as an example because you have a blog) Being able to talk here, and promote your blog means that if someone likes what you say here they may want to check out your blog, or learn more about you. Anything online is about content, so you have an option to provide content on your blog or content here. The forums here would prefer you create content here right? So they allow you to link your blog in your signature as nod or thank you for providing content here. As a blogger maybe you've heard of guest blogging? This would be similar to that in that content is produced on your blog but they still get a link back to their blog.

Now that's an overly simplistic version of the mutually beneficial relationship but hopefully it explains how I'm not doing anything horrible. Not to mention if you are like most people you have the ability to filter out most of that type of stuff and don't really read it anymore. Obviously spending money on advertising would net me better results, but I'm paying with time (content) rather than money for the ability to have that in my signature, and the more people in the conversation the bigger and better the conversation becomes, which means more traffic for this website.
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