Author Topic: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It  (Read 1135 times)

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2018, 05:46:48 AM »
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Not really. I have plenty of friends coasting their way through college and not even breaking a sweat with a great GPA, and they are neck deep in debt that will take most of their life to pay off. My cousin is going to med school, which will pay well... but she is already $150,000 in debt.

I don't care how smart you are, those numbers are fucking terrifying, and it's something my generation is the first to have to deal with. All while salaries stagnate and costs of living rise. Edit - oh, and as lobbyists and politicians pass laws making it even more expensive and more difficult to get out of debt.

I'm not saying it doesn't work out for plenty of people, but even those it works out for are still going to be heavily in debt, and that is not how it should work... that's not how it works in any other civilized country.

My point was, smart people generally don't need college.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline Cavebear

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2018, 07:39:25 AM »
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My point was, smart people generally don't need college.

No, smart people DO need college.  It is what gets you from AVERAGE about understanding something to REALLY understanding something.  Geniuses don't count.  The rest of us need college though.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2018, 08:32:24 AM »
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There are other specialties other than doctors and lawyers. Any quick read through a college class list will suffice.  But a basic college education is worth more than the specific subject.  I didn't engage in politics or history with a Poly-Sci major and History minor.  But it taught me a lot about how to understand the world around me.

Kudos to getting an education when it didn't cost both arms and both legs ;-)  Yes, you went into government employment ... didn't use politics nor history at all ;-))
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Offline Mermaid

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2018, 11:35:43 AM »
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I guess that's something I need to learn to clarify with my position (not that I posted it here, but it made me think about it)...

I loved college, and learning for the first year or two... but I don't love having to work two jobs and still being $56,000 in debt with loans to my tuition(by the time I graduate at the end of the year, that should be a comfy $65-70k). Literally any fun with education has been drained from me...

I use to love watching educational videos... science, history, English... I use to love reading in my free time, and now I literally do neither of those, unless a history video REALLY catches my attention. It's a mix of burnt out and just realizing that time I spend could be better used to pay for the shitload of debt that was placed on me, and debt that doesn't even help me in the long run. Even when I graduate, most jobs will not pay a living wage. If I stay here, and work my way up the ladder like I am trying to do, I'll be in my mid-30s by the time I can have a job that makes me realistically self-sufficent... it's like my entire 20s have been wasted.

I only have 4 more classes after this semester, but it is a struggle not to drop out. There is literally not a single morning where I don't wake up and ask myself why am I putting myself through this and not just dropping out, and the only answer I can even come out to is because my family would disown me if I did... it's not even because I have any desire to stay.

Education has become a job for me, but a job that drives me in debt that, on average wages, would take me literally a year and a half of work to pay off (if that was ALL I spent every dollar on). So it's like working 3 jobs, with one job taking all the earnings from the other two jobs AND about 5 more jobs worth of income. And that's not even calculating interest on that...

But that's what pay-to-learn education systems give you... it's no longer a basic human right, it's a privilege. Education is only for those with money, and the rest of us are shit out of luck, or worse yet scammed into thinking we "have" to have it and turned into modern day slaves... and if we don't pay it back, unlike even gamblers and other debts, we cant go bankrupt (and with the new president, we have had our loan forgiveness programs taken away).


I recall having the very same feeling at the end of undergrad. You are the Little Engine That Could. I think I can I think I can I think I can....
I was so burned out all I wanted to do was start earning instead of spending.

You have gotten this far. All the credits you do have are already paid for, so you may as well cross the finish line. Once that happens, you have a leg up that you will never have taken away from you.

Finish. Do it.

We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Mermaid

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2018, 11:38:13 AM »
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My point was, smart people generally don't need college.
Honestly, it has nothing to do with smarts. It has everything to do with basic minimum requirements for job openings.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2018, 12:38:22 PM »
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I recall having the very same feeling at the end of undergrad. You are the Little Engine That Could. I think I can I think I can I think I can....
I was so burned out all I wanted to do was start earning instead of spending.

You have gotten this far. All the credits you do have are already paid for, so you may as well cross the finish line. Once that happens, you have a leg up that you will never have taken away from you.

Finish. Do it.

Nicely put and I agree completely.  I think a higher education is not just what you learn about the specifics of a subject, but also how it teaches you to think carefully.  A skill that applies to everything...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2018, 12:47:54 PM »
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Honestly, it has nothing to do with smarts. It has everything to do with basic minimum requirements for job openings.

I think that is actually a bit new.  It used to be  (the 60s?) that just having a degree in anything meant you had proven you could at least think clearly, and that was what most jobs required.  Specialized knowledge is becoming more important these days.  Not that learning "anything" has no value, but college itself is becoming a basic requirement and advanced degrees matter more to employers.

I am glad a basic BS was sufficient in my time.  For my grandfather, a High School diploma meant about the same.  But there is am upper limit, I think, to how many years of formal education anyone can afford.  That needs to change.  We need to reorganize education funding and skill development.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2018, 01:14:05 PM »
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I think that is actually a bit new.  It used to be  (the 60s?) that just having a degree in anything meant you had proven you could at least think clearly, and that was what most jobs required.  Specialized knowledge is becoming more important these days.  Not that learning "anything" has no value, but college itself is becoming a basic requirement and advanced degrees matter more to employers.

I am glad a basic BS was sufficient in my time.  For my grandfather, a High School diploma meant about the same.  But there is am upper limit, I think, to how many years of formal education anyone can afford.  That needs to change.  We need to reorganize education funding and skill development.

Youtube videos, for credit.  How long can we continue to band-aid a Medieval school system?
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Offline Mermaid

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2018, 01:45:07 PM »
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I think that is actually a bit new.  It used to be  (the 60s?) that just having a degree in anything meant you had proven you could at least think clearly, and that was what most jobs required.  Specialized knowledge is becoming more important these days.  Not that learning "anything" has no value, but college itself is becoming a basic requirement and advanced degrees matter more to employers.

I am glad a basic BS was sufficient in my time.  For my grandfather, a High School diploma meant about the same.  But there is am upper limit, I think, to how many years of formal education anyone can afford.  That needs to change.  We need to reorganize education funding and skill development.
I am lucky enough to be employed by a company that pays for part of my tuition, so I am working on a 2nd master's at the moment, at 55 years old. Without my first one, I would not have been transferred by my current company, so that bar keeps rising.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2018, 01:58:58 PM »
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I am lucky enough to be employed by a company that pays for part of my tuition, so I am working on a 2nd master's at the moment, at 55 years old. Without my first one, I would not have been transferred by my current company, so that bar keeps rising.

A 2nd Masters...  I can hardly conceive the idea...   Not to be impolite, but are you actually feeling much smarter?   I know you are more knowledgeable, but do you feel "smarter".  There's a difference of course, and I wondered about that myself in college.  Was I just accumulating facts or was I learning to think better?  What were they actually teaching me?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Mermaid

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2018, 05:29:31 PM »
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A 2nd Masters...  I can hardly conceive the idea...   Not to be impolite, but are you actually feeling much smarter?   I know you are more knowledgeable, but do you feel "smarter".  There's a difference of course, and I wondered about that myself in college.  Was I just accumulating facts or was I learning to think better?  What were they actually teaching me?
I know, it's madness. My first master's was such a friggin pain in the neck, and total drudge that I was so happy when it was over. This new program came along and I swear they designed it just for me. I couldn't refuse it. It's more fun than I can express, it's brought me actual joy. I am not smarter, I don't think college makes you smarter. I'm just learning straight up memorizable facts, and also how to think in a certain way. And I'll be able to use it to consult, because I am studying with the literal God of the field (I am such a fangirl) and there are very few people who have the expertise they are throwing down, and it's hard to find people to do the work I'm training to do.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Online Baruch

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2018, 09:01:55 PM »
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I am lucky enough to be employed by a company that pays for part of my tuition, so I am working on a 2nd master's at the moment, at 55 years old. Without my first one, I would not have been transferred by my current company, so that bar keeps rising.

A former employer also paid for my masters ... and it was already much more expensive than my bachelors.  It is hard to keep your head above the competition!  So much easier, when almost everyone was illiterate.
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Online Baruch

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2018, 09:03:13 PM »
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I know, it's madness. My first master's was such a friggin pain in the neck, and total drudge that I was so happy when it was over. This new program came along and I swear they designed it just for me. I couldn't refuse it. It's more fun than I can express, it's brought me actual joy. I am not smarter, I don't think college makes you smarter. I'm just learning straight up memorizable facts, and also how to think in a certain way. And I'll be able to use it to consult, because I am studying with the literal God of the field (I am such a fangirl) and there are very few people who have the expertise they are throwing down, and it's hard to find people to do the work I'm training to do.

i liked my MS subject matter better than my BS subject matter, that made a difference.  I wasn't mature enough at 18 to know what I was doing.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2018, 07:40:24 AM »
Quote
Is College Worth It?
I've asked this lately also, and I don't have a good answer.  When I went to college, you were going to get a job out of it, and it only cost a couple thousand dollars a year.  It totally made financial sense, so the economic question wasn't worth considering.

The other issue revolves around personal improvement.  You will be smarter when you finish college, assuming you put in some effort, but is that worth the cost?  Only you can answer that question.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Graduates vs Dropouts: Is College Worth It
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2018, 12:33:11 AM »
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I've asked this lately also, and I don't have a good answer.  When I went to college, you were going to get a job out of it, and it only cost a couple thousand dollars a year.  It totally made financial sense, so the economic question wasn't worth considering.

The other issue revolves around personal improvement.  You will be smarter when you finish college, assuming you put in some effort, but is that worth the cost?  Only you can answer that question.

I didn't get a job directly from me degree, but I I got one eventually.  It worked out in the long term.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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