Trumps 30% tariff on imported solar panels

Started by Coveny, January 26, 2018, 11:43:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Coveny

For the Solar panel tariff:
The solar panel tariff started with solar panel-maker Suniva (who filed bankruptcy) filed the complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission. And the trade commission sided with them.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/trade-commission-decision-finds-solar-manufacturers-harmed-by-imports/

“On behalf of the entire solar cell and panel manufacturing industry, we welcome this important step toward securing relief from a surge of imports that has idled and shuttered dozens of factories, leaving thousands of workers without jobs.”
-Juergen Stein, CEO and president of SolarWorld Americas
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2017/09/industry-reaction-solar-panel-tariff-ruling/

Against the Solar panel tariff
Those in the solar industry installation business however are very unhappy about the tariff siting previous failed attempts.
(six years ago) “The first time the United States tried to protect solar industry manufacturing jobs from foreign competition, things did not go exactly as planned. Chinese solar panel makers evaded U.S. tariffs by relocating to Taiwan, and the Chinese government retaliated with its own duties on U.S. exports of the raw material used in making the panels â€" leading U.S. manufacturers to lay off more than 1,000 workers and scrap a new $1.2 billion factory.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-tariffs-will-save-some-solar-jobs-and-destroy-others/2018/01/22/756feb60-fca2-11e7-8f66-2df0b94bb98a_story.html?utm_term=.49156f9d7313

The Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA) estimates that the tariff “will cause the loss of roughly 23,000 American jobs this year”
https://www.seia.org/news/presidents-decision-solar-tariffs-loss-america

Corruption
The oil, gas and coal companies stand the most to gain from sluggish growth in the renewable energy market. The raised $107 million for Trump’s inauguration, and have spent 36.1 million on federal lobbying efforts from Jan. 1 through March 31. And the money seems to be paying off:
1) Rescinding ban dumping toxic heavy metals into waterways
2) Keystone XL Pipeline and the Dakota Access Pipeline
3) Rolling back the Clean Power Plan
4) Opening up protected lands to drilling and mining interests
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2017/05/02/20848/oil-gas-and-coal-interests-filling-donald-trump-s-swamp-cash

Going so far as to nominate them to his cabinet
1) ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State
2) Rick Perry for Secretary of Energy
https://www.oilandgasinvestor.com/trump-cabinet-positions-fill-oil-gas-advocates-1453571

Closing
All this in the face of climate change disasters we’re seeing in places like fires in California, flooding in Houston, and Puerto Rico four months later still has 450k people without power, and “Power may not be fully restored until May”.
https://weather.com/news/news/2018-01-26-hurricane-maria-puerto-rico-power-outages-restoration
http://fordebating.com is now in beta.

We have 1v1 and 2v2 debates 2-6 round debates others vote on and will have up to 16-man tourneys working soon.

Shiranu

I know the snark really doesn't serve any real purpose but...

Is it still too early to judge him?
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

Quote from: Shiranu on January 27, 2018, 12:19:30 AM
I know the snark really doesn't serve any real purpose but...

Is it still too early to judge him?

The content seems factual.  Arguments pro and com would be legitimate.  I say let him argue, but accept counter-arguments himself with rancor.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 12:54:43 AM
The content seems factual.  Arguments pro and com would be legitimate.  I say let him argue, but accept counter-arguments himself with rancor.

Tariff and foreign trade are complicated and ... lack objectivity.  Someone's ox is always getting Al Gored.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:13:23 AM
Tariff and foreign trade are complicated and ... lack objectivity.  Someone's ox is always getting Al Gored.

Mentioning Al Gore is an inconvenient truth.  Objectivity would be free trade.  But what about Chinese tech-theft?  What about Russian hacking?  Those aren't fair either.  And they aren't the only ones.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

#5
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
Mentioning Al Gore is an inconvenient truth.  Objectivity would be free trade.  But what about Chinese tech-theft?  What about Russian hacking?  Those aren't fair either.  And they aren't the only ones.

There is no fair trade, unless we have the same language, same culture, same laws, same currency ... and maybe not then.  I can see how corrupt free trade is inside the US.  How much tax payer money are you willing to pay for the #2 Amazon HQ?

Objective trade is ... I tilt the rules in my favor.  If you agree to a crooked game, it is your fault.  You are an idealist, but not a crazy one.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:39:54 AM
There is no fair trade, unless we have the same language, same culture, same laws, same currency ... and maybe not then.  I can see how corrupt free trade in inside the US.  How much tax payer money are you willing to pay for the #2 Amazon HQ?

Objective trade is ... I tilt the rules in my favor.  If you agree to a crooked game, it is your fault.  You are an idealist, but not a crazy one.

Fair trade exists.  If I point to your flint arrow and you point to my bag of asparagus as equal, that is a fair trade.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 11:16:52 AM
Fair trade exists.  If I point to your flint arrow and you point to my bag of asparagus as equal, that is a fair trade.

Hasn't happened since the Stoned Age.  But is happening in Boulder Colorado now, I was there last Summer ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 03:21:02 PM
Hasn't happened since the Stoned Age.  But is happening in Boulder Colorado now, I was there last Summer ;-)

The question always gets down to the 100th bead.  Or will it be the 99th.  That's why pennies still matter.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 03:22:53 PM
The question always gets down to the 100th bead.  Or will it be the 99th.  That's why pennies still matter.


The Venerable Bede?  Or a penny for your thoughts?  Well if it is only worth a penny, why bother? ;-))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 03:25:28 PM

The Venerable Bede?  Or a penny for your thoughts?  Well if it is only worth a penny, why bother? ;-))

The Venerable Bede was as much a fabulist as Josephus...  If either didn't know something they made it up.  "And here there be dragons"...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 03:30:04 PM
The Venerable Bede was as much a fabulist as Josephus...  If either didn't know something they made it up.  "And here there be dragons"...

Still happening at Fox and CNN.  They don't have to kill lambs to make vellum now.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 03:38:05 PM
Still happening at Fox and CNN.  They don't have to kill lambs to make vellum now.

I agree about Fox.  Iffy about CNN.  CNN is still mostly factual.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!