One Nation under Allah...

[pr126]

Jmpty wrote:

You sound more like a paranoid Christian fundie every day.

Are you sure? I have never been a Christian. Let alone a paranoid Christian fundie.

It seems that you get upset when your chosen group is mentioned in an unfavorable light.
Why is that?

[Jmpty]

Jmpty wrote:

You sound more like a paranoid Christian fundie every day.

Are you sure? I have never been a Christian. Let alone a paranoid Christian fundie.

It seems that you get upset when your chosen group is mentioned in an unfavorable light.
Why is that?

Do you seriously not see what a paranoid fuck you are? The only person I see being cast in an unfavorable light is you, and you are increasing the brightness of said light with every word that you type. Get some help.

[Jason Harvestdancer]

In Arabic Ilah is god.  Allah is but a name of a god, like Zeus, Apollo, Loki, Huitzilopochtli.

Not quite right.

In Arabic "Ilah" is "god".  And in Arabic "Al" is "the".  The phrase "Al Ilah" is contracted to "Allah" which simply means "the god".

I don't agree. This is just one of the many deceptive word plays Muslims use for western consumptions.
Another variation of this wordplay is that Allah derives from the Jewish god, Elohim,  El,= Allah.
Pure rubbish, but some are taken in by the deception.

Allah was the name of a pagan rock god among 360 other rock idols, long before Muhammad created his cult.

Muhammad's father was named Abdallah, slave of Allah. Muhammad destroyed all the rock idols, leaving Allah only.
The sahadah says There is no god but Allah. It doesn't say there is no god but god. It uses a specific name of a god.

However, none of this matters.

The bottom line is, that the school out of ignorance is promoting Islam.
Apparently, atheist here have no problem with that.

Muslims are laughing their socks off at the gullible kuffar.
.

The Jewish god has a name, and the name is not "god" it is "Yahweh."  If a Jew were to speak an equivalent sentence it would be "there is no god but Yahweh" instead of "there is not god but god."  And Yahweh is originally the name of a Canaanite deity, a god of war and part of the pantheon led by El the supreme god.

[Unusual Suspect]

I would argue that the specificity of Allah in arabic is merely one side of the puzzle.  On the English side of things, we have several ways of providing a generic term for deities.  We have gods, the generic term for a being of deity-level power, and we have God, a proper noun.  For those who don't recall, a proper noun is "a name used for an individual person, place, or organization."

God is the name of something, then, but what is it?  Well, God is used by Christians to refer to the trinity that includes Jesus.  It is used (sort of) by the Jews to refer to their Yahweh.  Muslims certainly use it for Allah.  It really seems to fit as the english name for the supreme deity of the universe as understood (more or less) by the various monotheistic religions.

Regardless of its origins as the specific name of a god amongst many of a tribe,its definition as understood in Arabic includes, correct me if I'm wrong, just the sort of "This is a unique and only deity worshiped (albeit wrongly by some) by all who venerate the divine".

I'm fairly sure that the common usage of Allah as "God" is such that Christians speaking Arabic use the term Allah al-Ab to represent God the Father.

The point, PR, is not the origins of the words when it comes to their translation, but their current understanding and usage, as well as the same sort of analysis of what is being translated in the first place.

We are not pledging allegiance to a Nation (again note the proper noun usage, we're talking 'Murica here!) under some unknown, generic idea of a deity... we're talking about a Nation under God, not god.  That god is a specific God (who that being is depending on the person interpreting), and in the Arabic language as it is currently used, that god seems to be Allah (as the closest in intentional meaning, rather than in archaic meaning (Elaha) or the application of english grammar rules tacked onto the alphabetical romanization of a different language with different rules (Ilah).

[Colanth]

I would argue that the specificity of Allah in arabic is merely one side of the puzzle.  On the English side of things, we have several ways of providing a generic term for deities.  We have gods, the generic term for a being of deity-level power, and we have God, a proper noun.

"gods" is the plural of "god", which is the singular generic.  "God" is the name of one specific god.

Allah is the generic "the god".

The only reason to not recite the pledge in Arabic would be if English were the official language of the country - which, contrary to the belief of many - it's not.

[pr126]

Cultural relativism and moral equivalence, because that is the politically correct thing to do.

Sorry, that's not me.

[pr126]

@ drunkenshoe
I am sorry but you are wasting your time trying to "re-educate" me.
I know that my ideas, principles may be repulsive to some on this particular forum, but that can't be helped.

It is too late in my time of life to change, besides I am quite comfortable with my world view, and the few years I have left, I am unlikely to get a new set of of ideas / principles just to please the AF crowd.

If you, or anyone else on AF cannot tolerate ideas different from your own, that is your problem, not mine.

[Plu]

As I have said many times before and pr is apparently realising himself now as well; just let the old fucker spout his bull; he'll die off eventually :/

[pr126]

As I have said many times before and pr is apparently realising himself now as well; just let the old fucker spout his bull; he'll die off eventually :/

Very nice Plu.  So much tolerance.

Think about this.
What would your life be as a non Muslim in any of the Muslim majority countries ?

According to American folklore, the vast majority of Muslims are moderate and peaceful. Maybe so.
But would you want to live as a non Muslim in any of the countries dominated by Islam?
Just to test your theory? Would you?

[Plu]

Very nice Plu. So much tolerance.

What? It's not like I'm asking people to speed up the proces. It's just a "live and let live" attitude. I'm tolerating your presence by just letting you be yourself and asking others to do the same. I mean; you admit yourself that discussing things with you is a complete waste of time. And now I'm the bad guy for telling people they shouldn't waste their time?

But would you want to live as a non Muslim in any of the countries dominated by Islam?
Just to test your theory? Would you?

That depends on whether or not I'd be able to get a good job and a nice place to live. I'm not going to live like a desert nomad, because that'd bore me to death. But if I can get a good IT-job in a major city? Sure. A friend of mine did just that. Surprise, surprise, he wasn't executed for heresy or anything. He just lived and worked as an atheist in a country full of muslims.

[pr126]

I guess that he keeps his atheism under wraps. With an option to leave whenever the going gets tough.

I am talking about non Muslims who are poor, and with no chance of "getting out".
Like the Copts in Egypt, Christians or non Muslims in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, or any of the countries in the above post.  

Case in point

You have a very blinkered view of the world.

[Bibliofagus]

In Arabic Ilah is god.  Allah is but a name of a god, like Zeus, Apollo, Loki, Huitzilopochtli.

Not quite right.

In Arabic "Ilah" is "god".  And in Arabic "Al" is "the".  The phrase "Al Ilah" is contracted to "Allah" which simply means "the god".

I don't agree. This is just one of the many deceptive word plays Muslims use for western consumptions.
Another variation of this wordplay is that Allah derives from the Jewish god, Elohim,  El,= Allah.
Pure rubbish, but some are taken in by the deception.

Allah was the name of a pagan rock god among 360 other rock idols, long before Muhammad created his cult.

Muslims don't believe in a supreme creatorgod but in a 'rock god'. And they are lying to us when they say they believe in a supreme creatorgod...

Riiight.

 :rollin:

Where do you get this shit?

[Plu]

You have a very blinkered view of the world.

 :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:  :rollin:

[pr126]

@ Bibliofagus

Muslims do not know or want to know the origin of Allah. Simple as that.
But Islamic scriptures and external history proves the pagan origins of Islam.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pagan_Origins_of_Islam

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-p ... origin.htm

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

That's why Islam cannot be an "Abrahamic" religion.

[Bibliofagus]

@ Bibliofagus

Muslims do not know or want to know the origin of Allah. Simple as that.
But Islamic scriptures and external history proves the pagan origins of Islam.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pagan_Origins_of_Islam

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-p ... origin.htm

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

That's why Islam cannot be an "Abrahamic" religion.

Yes. But how is that "just one of the many deceptive word plays Muslims use for western consumptions."?