Atheist, know thyself.

[Blackleaf]

I think you'll find that the poorer people are the more religious they will be.

Better off people need less god in their lives.

The poor are religious because they think they need God. The rich are religious because they can control the poor via "God's will." The middle class is religious because their parents were religious, and their parents parents were religious.

[Baruch]

That may be, but certainly not a hard and fast correlation in the US.  Most of my life I have associated with the lower middle class.  For the purposes of this post, I will identify them as "religious".   I did have occasion to become associated with the dirt poor down and out segment of society for an extended period.  For the most part, fundamentalism and illogical notions dominated that group.  Whether that group was entirely representative of the dirt poor, I can't say.

The more extreme the conditions, the more extreme the ideation.  For poor and ultra-rich alike.  The ultra-rich sophisticate thinks that reality is a Matrix, and they have the power to reboot the computer (like Moriarty manifested in holodeck of Star Trek Next Generation, Enterprise).  Plato was like one of those wealthy folks who didn't have to make pottery or statues for a living.  Socrates too, his dad was a decent fellow, was a stone mason.

[Baruch]

Islamaphobia is prejudicial.  There are the anti-religious, not just atheist or secular or agnostic.  And for them, Islam is enemy #1.  I get that.  But "phobia" implies a medical condition.  I don't necessarily think anyone here, even pr126, is phobic.  Strongly-anti isn't phobia.  I just think that, in his location, pr126 underestimates the Hindus (a lot of them in Britain) and the Christians (head of state is head of church).  Just because the Queen hasn't been chopping heads, doesn't mean she can't.  Prince Charles is strongly Arab-philic.  He wants to be Lawrence of Arabia.

[pr126]

I firmly believe that all gods and religions are Man’s creations.
At first out of fear of the unknown and later for control and profit.

[Baruch]

I firmly believe that all gods and religions are Man’s creations.
At first out of fear of the unknown and later for control and profit.

But why are you opposed to fear, control or profit?  Those are perfectly good things.  I have a fear of disease, so I diet and take my meds.  I have control over my personal affairs, I don't need a Queen, Pope or commissar telling me what to do.  And I am not against profit.  That would be ... worship of failure.

[SGOS]

But why are you opposed to fear, control or profit?  Those are perfectly good things.  I have a fear of disease, so I diet and take my meds.  I have control over my personal affairs, I don't need a Queen, Pope or commissar telling me what to do.  And I am not against profit.  That would be ... worship of failure.

I think you are kind of missing his point.  I hope that's not why you turn to religion.

[pr126]

Islam is a supremacist ideology and does not tolerate examination or criticism.

Islamophobia is a nonsensical made up word invented purely to stop all discussions about it.
Islam as an ideology cannot stand up to any scrutiny. It’s scriptures are their worst enemy.

[Blackleaf]

Islam is a supremacist ideology and does not tolerate examination or criticism.

Islamophobia is a nonsensical made up word invented purely to stop all discussions about it.
Islam as an ideology cannot stand up to any scrutiny. It’s scriptures are their worst enemy.

I half agree with you. Muslims are not open to criticism, and have been known to resort to violence when their prophet has been insulted. Christians aren't much more receptive of criticism, but they at least usually reserve their anger to ignorant Facebook posts. Both religions have disgusting teachings in their holy texts, which neither one wants to own up to. Islamophobia, however, is not about shutting down criticisms of the religion. It's used to describe people who discriminate against the people who follow that religion, simply because they are or even just look Islamic. The Christian Right has an irrational fear of the Middle-Eastern people, considering they are much more similar than they are different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

[Blackleaf]

On the topic of the OP, I'm not gonna lie. Without Munch's synopsis of the video, I wouldn't have even clicked on it. But I just finished watching the video, and I do find it interesting. Some of you might remember when I first joined this site. I had just recently abandoned my beliefs and was struggling to figure out exactly what I was. I didn't want to use the word "atheist" because I wasn't certain of my position yet, and I still had some ideas from my life as a Christian that took a while to shake off. I didn't know what the word "atheism" meant. I had been raised to think that they were people who were absolutely certain that God doesn't exist, to the point where they would ignore evidence to the contrary. Now that I have a proper understanding of the word, I'm perfectly willing to accept the label, and I find it very frustrating when I have to repeatedly explain to theists that their understanding of the word is wrong. I agree with the points made in the video.

[Gilgamesh]

It's used to describe people who discriminate against the people who follow that religion, simply because they are or even just look Islamic.

There's no such thing as 'looking' islamic if we're talking about just people, separate from garments and adornments. And nobody hates muslims because of what they wear.

If one is prejudiced against middle-eastern people on the basis that they are of a middle-eastern ethnicity; that's racism - not islamophobia.

What islamophobia actually is is prejudice against muslims on the basis that they are muslims. But I get it - you're trying to shoehorn race into it because you're a regressive.

[Baruch]

I think you are kind of missing his point.  I hope that's not why you turn to religion.

Don't know where you are coming from, in context of what I was saying to pr126.  Would you like to expand?

[Baruch]

Islam is a supremacist ideology and does not tolerate examination or criticism.

Islamophobia is a nonsensical made up word invented purely to stop all discussions about it.
Islam as an ideology cannot stand up to any scrutiny. It’s scriptures are their worst enemy.

PC is political, not religious.  But if you can't separate politics from religion (and many people can't) then it is a problem.  But I think everyone here separates religion from politics.  I understand you opposed Islamism as a political ideology.  I see no problem with opposing that.  I oppose opposition to "truth, justice and the American way" ... and I wear a cape and my BVDs on the outside ;-))

Again, the phobia is practicing medicine without a license.  I can see that people are bigoted toward gays or Muslims, because they are gay or Muslims, not because of the politics of it.  But labeling your opponents as "crazy" is a Soviet technique not worthy of use after 1991.  But the Soviet system is coming back on-line, not only in China and Russia, but in the US ... for thought crime.

[pr126]

Islam is a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religiosity.
The state (politics) and religion are inseparable in Muslim dominated countries.

See Islamic Republic of Iran for example.

“When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. ”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

[Baruch]

Islam is a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religiosity.
The state (politics) and religion are inseparable in Muslim dominated countries.

See Islamic Republic of Iran for example.

“When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. ”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

Exactly (quote from Dune) ... and so?  It works.

Potentially, Islamism is just as dangerous as the Marxist inspired shit we all came to love from 1917 - 1991.  But it is controlled opposition ... GCHQ and NSA control it ... except when they don't!  Charlie Wilson's War continues to give back.  Helping the Soviet Union fail was a plus, but can we stop now?

Iran is a regional power, same as Turkey.  Turkey this morning resumed their jihad against the Kurds.  They are also involved in Qatar and Sudan.  Just trying to rebuild the nasty Ottoman Empire.  I would take Mexico and Venezuela as neighbors any day, over Iran and Turkey.  Poor Russia (to misquote a Mexican saying) too close to Islam, and too far from the Equator.

[Munch]

There's no such thing as 'looking' islamic if we're talking about just people, separate from garments and adornments. And nobody hates muslims because of what they wear.

If one is prejudiced against middle-eastern people on the basis that they are of a middle-eastern ethnicity; that's racism - not islamophobia.

What islamophobia actually is is prejudice against muslims on the basis that they are muslims. But I get it - you're trying to shoehorn race into it because you're a regressive.

its true, I don't hate people for what they wear (unless its a t-shirt with a swastika on it), but seeing women here in the uk wandering around with full headscarfs overing themselves up, it makes me angry at the thought of these women being manipulated and pressured since they were children to dress that way, and in my country, men and women are considered equals, not lesser beings like in the middle east.

Actually I stand corrected, I don't hate the people wearing that crap, I hate the ones who forced them into wearing it for years, who manipulated them into thinking its normal somehow.