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Jordan Peterson on Channel 4 News

Started by Sal1981, January 18, 2018, 03:14:51 PM

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GSOgymrat

#45
I finished reading Jordan Peterson's new book Twelve Rules for Life - An Antidote to Chaos. It is written for the average reader and is an amalgam of self-help, psychology, philosophy, and religion. It's a thoughtful book and much more personal than I anticipated. He uses story and archetype to support his rules for life, and he certainly has a lot more than twelve. He focuses on the Bible, Russian novelists, and psychoanalytic theories to explore chaos, order, meaning, truth, hierarchy, socialism, gender and how one should live. Reading this book made it clear why so many young men admire him on YouTube-- he's is very much the tough love father figure. 

As far as atheism (since that is topic of this forum) I'm not sure Peterson believes anyone is truly an atheist. He says that actions reveal a person's beliefs and no one is an atheist in their actions. Paraphrasing-- actions are expressions of belief, our beliefs are a biological and cultural expression of our ancestors, and the Bible is the foundational document of Western civilization.  "The Bible is a library composed of many books, each written and edited by many people. It's a truly emergent documentâ€"a selected, sequenced and finally coherent story written by no one and everyone over many thousands of years. The Bible has been thrown up out of the deep, by the collective human imagination, which is itself a product of unimaginable forces operating over unfathomable spans of time. Its careful, respectful study can reveal things to us about what we believe and how we should do and should act that can be discovered in almost no other manner."

This is book is ostensibly about rules for living a good life but I enjoyed it more as an exposition of Peterson's personal and cultural narrative. You can learn a lot about a person by the stories they tell, the one's that resonate to their core. Peterson's story begins with "life is suffering."

Unbeliever

Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 29, 2018, 03:15:31 PM
Peterson's story begins with "life is suffering."
He probably got that from The Princess Bride, where Wesley tells Buttercup, “Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.”
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

I only saw the short video on Twelve Rules.  Of course what he brings to the discussion isn't surprising, given he follows Carl Jung.

It is true, in so far as we overgeneralize "Western Civilization" ... what is non-Abrahamic is non-Western.  India/China/Japan for example.  It is also true, that until recently, Greco-Roman intellectualism didn't impact the East, they had their own intellectual traditions.  They didn't need us to show them how to be "civilized".

Of course the notion of "Western Civilization" is a rhetorical construct, though it is one I support.  But then again, I appreciate "Eastern Civilization" too.

Western Civilization is based on Greco-Roman paganism, Greco-Roman intellectualism, Imperial Christianity, Jewish internal pressure, and Muslim external pressure.  Though geography has to take most of the credit for Western success, geography wasn't sufficient.  Unique historical events played a part in Europe, but not elsewhere.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

pr126

I think that the interview with Kathy Newman (4.5 million views to date) was the best advertisement that Jordan Peterson could have had for the launch of his new book.


GSOgymrat

Quote from: pr126 on February 01, 2018, 03:40:43 AM
I think that the interview with Kathy Newman (4.5 million views to date) was the best advertisement that Jordan Peterson could have had for the launch of his new book.

I agree it was definitely a coup. I hope progressives will give his book a chance and I also hope that his fans don't passively receive his words as gospel. I hope it makes people think. Reading Peterson's story and understanding his traditionalist values inspired me to reflect on my own story and values.

Baruch

Quote from: pr126 on February 01, 2018, 03:40:43 AM
I think that the interview with Kathy Newman (4.5 million views to date) was the best advertisement that Jordan Peterson could have had for the launch of his new book.

Conspiracy theorist!  She deliberately lost.  Hillary deliberately lost to Obama and to Trump!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 01, 2018, 05:37:34 AM
I agree it was definitely a coup. I hope progressives will give his book a chance and I also hope that his fans don't passively receive his words as gospel. I hope it makes people think. Reading Peterson's story and understanding his traditionalist values inspired me to reflect on my own story and values.

Avant guardism is over-rated.  Traditionalism/Avant guardism not the same as liberal/conservative or Left/Right or progressive/regressive.  Do throw out the bath water, but keep the baby.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

pr126

Quote from: Baruch on February 01, 2018, 06:27:32 AM
Conspiracy theorist!  She deliberately lost.  Hillary deliberately lost to Obama and to Trump!
Unintended consequences. :)

PickelledEggs

My problem with Milo is specifically that he twists his presentation of facts to frame issues in a certain way, much more... craftily than your average journalist. He has some great points, but most people have great points.

I guess I like him better than TYT, despite the fact that I disagree with his goal and agree more with TYT's goal.... as odd as that sounds.

Baruch

Quote from: pr126 on February 01, 2018, 07:01:22 AM
Unintended consequences. :)

Sith always come in twain.  The intended consequences and the unintended consequences.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 01, 2018, 03:06:57 PM
My problem with Milo is specifically that he twists his presentation of facts to frame issues in a certain way, much more... craftily than your average journalist. He has some great points, but most people have great points.

I guess I like him better than TYT, despite the fact that I disagree with his goal and agree more with TYT's goal.... as odd as that sounds.

Skill can be appreciated, even if used for evil means.  Hitler and Stalin were the only political geniuses of the 20th century.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 04:35:40 PM
The original movie was scary.  The remake had hilarious out-takes, dropped from the final cut, that would have turned it into Inspector Gadget.

I saw the Inspector Gadget movie and wasn't impressed.  The animated version was way better.  The newer Teen Titans, on the other hand are terrible. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 03:06:10 AM
I saw the Inspector Gadget movie and wasn't impressed.  The animated version was way better.  The newer Teen Titans, on the other hand are terrible.

Inspector Gadget was of interest to 7 years old girls.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 01:18:53 PM
Inspector Gadget was of interest to 7 years old girls.

After a day here, childish escapism has some positive aspects.  I recall "Angry Beavers' fondly.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 01:21:13 PM
After a day here, childish escapism has some positive aspects.  I recall "Angry Beavers' fondly.

Yes, another gift from Canada, along with Rocky and Bullwinkle ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW_B4KB0wYs
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.