Why I Hate America

[omokuroi]

You mean prosperity doesn't have to be a zero-sum game?

I mean that even if it is a zero-sum game, I'd rather everyone sit at zero than one person sit at 100 while twenty others sit at -5.

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, well, unfortunately the world doesn't give a damn what any of us prefer.

[omokuroi]

Yeah, well, unfortunately the world doesn't give a damn what any of us prefer.

Hmm.

At the most reductionist level, that seems to be true, but just because skyscrapers don't exist in nature doesn't mean we can't build them.

And if we don't like diseases, we invent vaccines and antibiotics.

Humans are capable of "fixing" and "changing" things. Suddenly denying that ability when it comes to certain subjects doesn't seem very... honest.

[Unbeliever]

Oh, sure, the world could be fixed, except that it's the rich people who run the world, and they don't want it fixed because they make more profit from the chaos and misery of the world.

[omokuroi]

Oh, sure, the world could be fixed, except that it's the rich people who run the world, and they don't want it fixed because they make more profit from the chaos and misery of the world.

Rich people run the world because a lot of people want rich people to run the world.

That's the way of things.

Also why I hate America. Well, one of the reasons. Few of them are in the OP, though.

[Shiranu]

Eh. Call me a communist, but I'd prefer a world where people stopped wanting to win when it just means someone else must be losing.

Why does being the best mean everyone else is losing?

I mean that even if it is a zero-sum game, I'd rather everyone sit at zero than one person sit at 100 while twenty others sit at -5.

And I'd rather everyone sit at 99.9 while we sit at 100.00. Suddenly that doesn't look as bad, does it?

[Hydra009]

I mean that even if it is a zero-sum game, I'd rather everyone sit at zero than one person sit at 100 while twenty others sit at -5.

The second part of that sentence contradicts the first part.

[omokuroi]

Why does being the best mean everyone else is losing?

And I'd rather everyone sit at 99.9 while we sit at 100.00. Suddenly that doesn't look as bad, does it?

So if you're at 99.9 and someone else is at 101.00, you'd rather reduce them to 99.9 (or better yet, even lower) just so you could win?

That's the implication.

"To Be Lawful Or Good." Shiru no? This is the same. One has to be more important than the other. Either you would rather be the loser yourself than see someone else worse off, or you would rather see someone else worse off than be the loser yourself. I'm not a fan of people who hold personal victory as a higher value than the general welfare. Personally speaking.

The second part of that sentence contradicts the first part.

How's that? A zero-sum game means, well, the sum is zero.

[Unbeliever]

Rich people run the world because a lot of people want rich people to run the world.

That's the way of things.

Also why I hate America. Well, one of the reasons. Few of them are in the OP, though.

I just heard Bernie Sanders say that the 3 richest people in America own more wealth than the bottom half of America. That's a good reason to hate America, I guess.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbBCyZxDAbY

[Shiranu]

So if you're at 99.9 and someone else is at 101.00, you'd rather reduce them to 99.9 (or better yet, even lower) just so you could win?

Why does them being lower mean I reduced them? I rather work harder and better my number, not worsen theirs.

You are making some bold assertions about what I am actually saying...

I'm not a fan of people who hold personal victory as a higher value than the general welfare.

I am not the United States.

[Unbeliever]

You are making some bold assertions about what I am actually saying...

Sounds a bit like Baruch, huh?

[omokuroi]

Why does them being lower mean I reduced them? I rather work harder and better my number, not worsen theirs.

You are making some bold assertions about what I am actually saying...

Not really. You haven't gone into much detail about what you're saying, and...

Hold on a second. I'll edit in the relevant research in a moment.

[Shiranu]

Not really. You haven't gone into much detail about what you're saying, and...

Except I have said exactly what needs to be said; I want us to work that fraction harder to be better. That doesn't mean we are bringing anyone anyone else down, just lifting ourselves higher.

That doesn't require a paragraph to explain.

[Hydra009]

How's that? A zero-sum game means, well, the sum is zero.

I misread.  I thought you initially allowed that it's not a zero-sum game (which would be true) and then labored under zero-sum logic for the latter part of the sentence.  Apparently, it was bad logic all the way through.  Apologies.

[Hydra009]

Why does them being lower mean I reduced them? I rather work harder and better my number, not worsen theirs.

I think the problem here is that omokuroi is conflating rankings with capability.  The first is zero-sum (no two countries can occupy the #1 spot) while the second one isn't (if American life expectancy improves, it doesn't lower Japanese life expectancy).