Azam Ali, Iranian-American Singer, on Trump's "Shithole" Remark

Started by Shiranu, January 12, 2018, 07:32:11 PM

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Draconic Aiur


omokuroi

Quote from: Gilgamesh on January 16, 2018, 10:47:39 PM
He's not saying, "ew, I don't want them because I'm an old xenophobic bastard." He's saying, "I don't want people who have 0 skills and 0 intent to be productive - especially when there's tons of people who are both those things competing to get in here." He's bemoaning the fact that you're letting in refugees who are so uneducated that they'd be considered clinically retarded, rather than would-be refugees who have a lot to contribute.
So set up the process to exclude things like race and national origin as factors, and instead focus on testing ability and health metrics.

But no one wants that because 1) there wouldn't be very many uneducated, disease-riddled Africans getting through, upsetting lefties and 2) there would be plenty of educated, healthy Africans getting through, upsetting righties.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 17, 2018, 08:11:17 AM
Right.  And the "they all have AIDS" stuff is clearly indicative that.

Actually all Americans have cookies (no, not cooties).  So you object to the disease screening at Ellis Island?  We sent a lot of oppressed people back where they came from.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: omokuroi on January 17, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
So set up the process to exclude things like race and national origin as factors, and instead focus on testing ability and health metrics.

But no one wants that because 1) there wouldn't be very many uneducated, disease-riddled Africans getting through, upsetting lefties and 2) there would be plenty of educated, healthy Africans getting through, upsetting righties.

A blind lottery, for people who meet certain criteria, would be fair.  But fairness doesn't tilt the elections unfairly.  Why were all those unwashed Europeans imported prior to 1920?  Democratic city politics.  Immigrants will be "grateful" to the political bosses who support their immigration.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on January 17, 2018, 09:56:36 AMWell to be fair alot of parts in Africa are Hellholes
Yeah...but the Prez has a lot of roles - chief executive, commander in chief, chief of state, and chief diplomat.  Being the face of America to the world means you should at least make a token effort to not antagonize other countries for no reason.

omokuroi

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 17, 2018, 04:01:40 PM
Yeah...but the Prez has a lot of roles - chief executive, commander in chief, chief of state, and chief diplomat.  Being the face of America to the world means you should at least make a token effort to not antagonize other countries for no reason.
Some people are happy he said it.

You mustn't forget that America includes its share of antisocial warmongers eager to put more boots on the ground. That's who Trump represents.

Draconic Aiur

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 17, 2018, 04:01:40 PM
Yeah...but the Prez has a lot of roles - chief executive, commander in chief, chief of state, and chief diplomat.  Being the face of America to the world means you should at least make a token effort to not antagonize other countries for no reason.

He has none.

Baruch

Quote from: omokuroi on January 17, 2018, 04:06:48 PM
Some people are happy he said it.

You mustn't forget that America includes its share of antisocial warmongers eager to put more boots on the ground. That's who Trump represents.

Yes, he is quite in line with the warmongering Clintons and Obamas and Bushes.  Dark State Uber Alles.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

OK, this probably isn't going to be the well-received post.  And I'm not defending the US just because I live here.  I didn't much like it in the late 60s myself.  But I know history and how things were before.

In the 1800s, the US wasn't considered to be very important.  We just stayed off by ourselves.  But we had just had a massive Civil War had the best armies in the world, and our warfare techniques held up a half century.

WWI was basically our Civil War, trench nightmares carried into Europe.  And by the choice of the Europeans who were almost always at was among themselves.  Bismark of Germany recognized the lessons of our Civil War.

The US, contrary to popular opinion at home, did NOT win WWI.  The European nations were just worn out and fresh troops (and supplies) from the US tipped the balance.  Woodrow Wilson tried to end warfare, proposing that democracies join together to stop future horrible wars.  The British and French would have none of that, though, and demanded nation-crushing reparations from Germany.  The WWI peace treaties caused WWII. 

I forget who said that the peace treaties were merely an cessation of war for 2 decades, but he was right. 

Europe has basically been at constant war since the Roman Empire fell.  So don't blame the US for that.

The US could have stayed out of both wars.  And maybe it should have.  Who won WWI made little difference to us really, and quite frankly, we could have just as well traded with a WWII German empire as a Franco-British one. 

Were the Nazis horrible?  Of course they were.  But so were the Russians.  And the other nations in Europe were colonial empires treating the peoples they ruled badly.  No one had clean hands.  The history of post-Roman civilization just drips blood over all the pages.

Back to the US.  Who do you think started slavery?  The US?  Of course not.  The British began it here before we were a nation and they left us that evil problem.  And everyone in Europe and Asia traded in slavery.  That didn't make it right for us.  In fact it made it worse. Our ideals were stained by blood and horror from the start.

Back to WWII.  Had Germany won, and the US out, we would have traded with them.  As would Britain and Russia and everyone else.  But we didn't stay out and they fell. 

Europeans hate this, but who do you think rebuilt Europe?  Remember the Marshall Plan?  We rebuilt Europe new and fresh.  All the old infrastructure was gone and we made it so "because that seemed the right thing to do.  Any pre-WWII leader  would have said we were crazy to do it. 

We COULD have just kept to ourselves and gained more wealth (and recovered from the war with Japan) and taking it over in European-style.

We did none of that...

We thought the world was better off with sovreign democracies and so we started the United Nations.

I was born in 1950, only 5 years after WWII ended.  I remember, growing up, that the adults talked about a better world we were helping to build.  It lasted until I became an adult.  The Pax Americana. 

But no nation can maintain that selflessness.  We are all just human.  Influence and power corrupted us.  We caught the European and Asian "flu" in the 80's.  Thought that, with military power, we could keep the world "right". 

One war led to another, small crap mostly.  Vietnam to support the French for example.  Bailed their asses out and where did THAT get us?  Do the French love us now?

We are worn out, thankyouverymuch...  Our ideals are ruined by realpolitiks. We threw ourselves into the Peace Corps, brought other nations along with us into space (eventually), faced down the Soviets...  And no one cares a damn!

So now we have citizens who say "keep to ourselves", "screw the world", and pull back because nothing we did after WWII seemed to make the world better...

The result is PRESIDENT Donald the fuck Trump.  You all deserve him.  You created him, hating us for not being perfect, until enough US voters said "enough", let's just go for ourselves for a while...

And what will the future bring?  China.  And Russia. 

Have a happy...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

America ... hell yeah!

I agree, but you can't take the Euro-trash out.  We own it now.

I agree, it would have been interesting, and plausible, for the US to support Imperial Germany.  But Wilson had given control of the US over to the Bank of England clone, the Federal Reserve.  The British Empire had us by the balls, over 6 months before Sarajevo.

And sorry, the French will never be happy, as long as one Anglophone is happy.  The alliance was temporary .. and not even worth much in WW II.  Germans and Russians have good reason to hate us.  So I don't consider their opinions to have any objectivity.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 18, 2018, 01:34:57 PM
America ... hell yeah!

I agree, but you can't take the Euro-trash out.  We own it now.

I agree, it would have been interesting, and plausible, for the US to support Imperial Germany.  But Wilson had given control of the US over to the Bank of England clone, the Federal Reserve.  The British Empire had us by the balls, over 6 months before Sarajevo.

And sorry, the French will never be happy, as long as one Anglophone is happy.  The alliance was temporary .. and not even worth much in WW II.  Germans and Russians have good reason to hate us.  So I don't consider their opinions to have any objectivity.

You mistake.  I didn't argue for Germany in WWI.  They were just another monarchy among others then and the British were bloodlined to them.

Its WWII and after that ruined everything.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 18, 2018, 01:43:49 PM
You mistake.  I didn't argue for Germany in WWI.  They were just another monarchy among others then and the British were bloodlined to them.

Its WWII and after that ruined everything.

Achtung, you must return your picklehaube then!  The largest second language in the US, in 1914, was German.  My mother's father was German-American.  Why should we have helped the only country that ever burned down Washington DC?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 18, 2018, 01:47:32 PM
Achtung, you must return your picklehaube then!  The largest second language in the US, in 1914, was German.  My mother's father was German-American.  Why should we have helped the only country that ever burned down Washington DC?

Because when push comes to shove between siblings, we were still mostly British until the 1980s.

And the Brits only burned Washington DC after we burned some Canadian city.  Toronto, I think.

BTW, I've never understood how you can burn down a stone building. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 18, 2018, 01:58:13 PM
Because when push comes to shove between siblings, we were still mostly British until the 1980s.

And the Brits only burned Washington DC after we burned some Canadian city.  Toronto, I think.

BTW, I've never understood how you can burn down a stone building.

It was Port Dover that was burned by the Americans.  Wooden cabins mostly.  In the case of Washington DC, they weren't using steel beams in the original WH or Capital buildings.  Wooden support beams.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 18, 2018, 02:03:10 PM
It was Port Dover that was burned by the Americans.  Wooden cabins mostly.  In the case of Washington DC, they weren't using steel beams in the original WH or Capital buildings.  Wooden support beams.

The wood support beams makes sense.  And probably all the tapestries hanging on the walls to keep out the cold.  Thank you.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!