On Miracles

[Baruch]

Lack of cultural knowledge.  With bedouin ... they run the sheep and goats together, because they behave better in a mixed group.  Also it is the children's job ... mom and dad stay back at the tent, in the shade.  Of course with Abraham, before his first child was born, he had to do everything himself, even argue ... with G-d's angels/with G-d.  The separating of the sheep and goats is when the livestock gets back to the camp ... it is time to milk the goats and shear the sheep.  Rather like tax time.  With Jesus being the scapegoat ... you would think that the Christians would rather be numbered with the goats and not the sheep.

[trdsf]

There is an interesting passage in Mathew dealing with sorting the sheep and the goats.  Prayer is important.  Doing is what love really is.

Prayer is only really important to the person doing the praying; that doesn't mean it's important in general.

Interesting thing, they've actually done research on the power of prayer, and it turns out prayer helps people in hospital recover faster... but only if they already knew someone was praying for them.  If not, zero effect.  So the most you can say for it is that it's a placebo effect -- all in the recipient's mind.

[Baruch]

Prayer is only really important to the person doing the praying; that doesn't mean it's important in general.

Interesting thing, they've actually done research on the power of prayer, and it turns out prayer helps people in hospital recover faster... but only if they already knew someone was praying for them.  If not, zero effect.  So the most you can say for it is that it's a placebo effect -- all in the recipient's mind.

There is only one thing ... in general.  The Big Bang.  Nothing else is important.  Some people would take the placebo effect, if only they could get it.  Doctor's help is rather limited.

[Unbeliever]

Here are some interesting links about the inefficacy of prayer:


Studies Show Inefficacy Of Prayer


Statistical Inquiries into the Efficacy of Prayer - Francis Galton

[Baruch]

Here are some interesting links about the inefficacy of prayer:


Studies Show Inefficacy Of Prayer


Statistical Inquiries into the Efficacy of Prayer - Francis Galton

It is a placebo sometimes.  In the US go to your doctor, who is a slave of the Big Pharma and Health Insurance business.

[aitm]

Why ?  Why ?  Why ?

Because the babble says too and it will be granted. Do you NOT understand the babble?

[Unbeliever]

Because the babble says too and it will be granted. Do you NOT understand the babble?

No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it means what he says.

[Baruch]

Because the babble says too and it will be granted. Do you NOT understand the babble?

G-d does grant everything, but not what you want, or when you want.  Potentiality feeds actuality.  "What you want" isn't about your ape-like ego.

[aitm]

G-d does grant everything, but not what you want, or when you want.  Potentiality feeds actuality.  "What you want" isn't about your ape-like ego.

pish posh. TRUE believers will be granted everything they wish...god said so. So those who do NOT get what they want? Obvious is obvious.

[SGOS]

pish posh. TRUE believers will be granted everything they wish...god said so. So those who do NOT get what they want? Obvious is obvious.

It always comes around to the argument that you can't take the Bible literally, and even most fundamentalists, while claiming they do, obviously don't.  There's a problem with claiming the Bible is a perfect document inspired by God.  A perfect document should be taken literally, and a perfect God could have and should have written that way, so that all mankind could be on the same page, clearly understand it, and be able to reconcile its inconsistencies and errors with reality.  Theologians sitting around discussing it should NOT have to debate about what this or that actually means.  And they would NOT have to if it actually said what it meant.

[Mike Cl]

It always comes around to the argument that you can't take the Bible literally, and even most fundamentalists, while claiming they do, obviously don't.  There's a problem with claiming the Bible is a perfect document inspired by God.  A perfect document should be taken literally, and a perfect God could have and should have written that way, so that all mankind could be on the same page, clearly understand it, and be able to reconcile its inconsistencies and errors with reality.  Theologians sitting around discussing it should NOT have to debate about what this or that actually means.  And they would NOT have to if it actually said what it meant.

All of that.

And why publish it in only 2/3 languages and in one small section of the world?  Would it not be just as easy to publish worldwide and in every language humans spoke???

[SGOS]

And why publish it in only 2/3 languages and in one small section of the world?  Would it not be just as easy to publish worldwide and in every language humans spoke???

A god could have done that, and done it all on the first try... If there was a god like the one described in the Bible.

[Baruch]

A god could have done that, and done it all on the first try... If there was a god like the one described in the Bible.

As is literally described in the Bible ;-)

[SGOS]

As is literally described in the Bible ;-)

OK, but in the context of this thread, I assumed that would be implied automatically.

[Cavebear]

Right next to Unobtanium ... you need both to make positronic brains.

Hey, I made that hopium/unobtanian joke recently.  You owe me royalties.  I'll settle for a Dukedom...