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On Miracles

Started by trdsf, January 09, 2018, 11:38:24 AM

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omokuroi

Quote from: SGOS on January 16, 2018, 11:52:09 AM
Sure, why not?
Sounds like it could make a decent plot point in a sci-fi novel.

SGOS

Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 11:53:50 AM
Sounds like it could make a decent plot point in a sci-fi novel.
Sometimes I think about a plot line in an imaginary book I might write.  Some guy would die and meet God, but God would be completely different than what everyone thinks and disappointed with the fact that no one understands him.  God would actually be a likeable entity in the book, but just unable to make himself known, because he is prevented by the confines of the reality that prevents him from being there except through mankind's imagination.  He wouldn't say it outright, but readers would understand his frustration and know that he would like to help if he could.  I'm not sure what else happens, but I imagine something good coming out of it, but I don't know what.  The dead guy probably wouldn't be able to help because he's dead, so how would this vital understanding of God be brought back to the people on Earth?

I don't think about this much.  There is more detail in the paragraph above than anything I've ever thought about before.

omokuroi

Quote from: SGOS on January 16, 2018, 12:21:45 PM
I don't think about this much.  There is more detail in the paragraph above than anything I've ever thought about before.
For years I've played around with a sort of metafiction wherein the many-worlds interpretation is true, and another universe has managed to link up with this one and make it into something of a personal playground. Actually, it turns out modern humans were very much based on the image of the beings in that universe, and that the technology they used to shape this universe can be used to, to some extent, alter reality to suit the collective will of humanity. This turns out to be the origin of a few miracles... and also inadvertently ends up creating two of the primary antagonists of the (potential) series, one created by the people of the other universe, and one created by humans.

I've thought about this a lot. This is actually less detailed than I usually go.

trdsf

Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 12:26:35 PM
For years I've played around with a sort of metafiction wherein the many-worlds interpretation is true, and another universe has managed to link up with this one and make it into something of a personal playground. Actually, it turns out modern humans were very much based on the image of the beings in that universe, and that the technology they used to shape this universe can be used to, to some extent, alter reality to suit the collective will of humanity. This turns out to be the origin of a few miracles... and also inadvertently ends up creating two of the primary antagonists of the (potential) series, one created by the people of the other universe, and one created by humans.

I've thought about this a lot. This is actually less detailed than I usually go.
Write it.  Even if it's just for your own amusement.  Otherwise it'll eat your brain.

In my own writing, I'm going to have a lot of fun with the plot point that meeting humans ultimately provided actual physical evidence in favor of the aliens' creation myth... you can imagine how well that goes down among believer humans, of course.  Heh.  Heh.  Heh.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

omokuroi

Quote from: trdsf on January 16, 2018, 12:59:25 PM
Write it.  Even if it's just for your own amusement.  Otherwise it'll eat your brain.

In my own writing, I'm going to have a lot of fun with the plot point that meeting humans ultimately provided actual physical evidence in favor of the aliens' creation myth... you can imagine how well that goes down among believer humans, of course.  Heh.  Heh.  Heh.
One of the protagonists of mine is loosely based off David Hume.

He's generally the one in charge of the so-called godslaying business. This makes a lot of people very unhappy.

Baruch

#50
Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 01:09:51 PM
One of the protagonists of mine is loosely based off David Hume.

He's generally the one in charge of the so-called godslaying business. This makes a lot of people very unhappy.

David Hume was awesome at skepticism.  But don't go so far as to disbelieve that David Hume ever existed ;-)

Samuel Johnson would not only refute George Berkeley, but David Hume, by kicking that stone (in front of Boswell) ... "I refute him thus!".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#51
Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 11:40:17 AM
Ah, but isn't God's current state of vitality/mortality observed the moment he reveals himself to take credit for the miracle?

G-d is physically more like the zero-point energy, where the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle is applied to energy-time.  As long as you don't look closely, one can get away with anything.  In philosophical terms, G-d is pure potentiality, not actuality.  And only what is actual, can exist ... so G-d cannot exist ... yet is a-causally connected to all of existence.

So what about the Big Bang?  Well you can create a universe, as long as it exists for a correspondingly short time.  Relativistically, relative to light (photons) the length of any temporal time is zero ... which allows you infinite free energy.  Things only are confusing relative to non-photonic phenomena.  Relative to photons ... it isn't that photons are blindingly fast, but that other matter is agonizingly slow.  Like watching a pot of water come to boil ... by watching (and this means you aren't photonic) ... it literally takes forever for one second to pass.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

omokuroi

Quote from: Baruch on January 16, 2018, 01:39:14 PM
David Hume was awesome at skepticism.  But don't go so far as to disbelieve that David Hume ever existed ;-)
Some people go so far as to doubt Shakespeare really existed... so, it wouldn't exactly be novel territory, would it?

I guess it says something that I have more respect for Hume than Shakespeare, though. "Nerd!"

Unbeliever

Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 11:53:50 AM
Sounds like it could make a decent plot point in a sci-fi novel.
Well, there's this, which I read a couple of years ago:

Towing Jehovah
Quote
God is dead, and now God's two-mile-long cadaver is floating in the Atlantic Ocean, just off the coast of Africa. As a result, the archangel Raphael hires supertanker captain Anthony Van Horne to tow the cadaver into the Arctic, with the intention of having it be preserved by the cold.

It was quite an interesting read, actually.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

#54
Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 01:51:03 PM
Some people go so far as to doubt Shakespeare really existed... so, it wouldn't exactly be novel territory, would it?

I guess it says something that I have more respect for Hume than Shakespeare, though. "Nerd!"

Well, you seem to be a geek of particularly refined type.  Virgin olive oil perhaps ... maybe not so virgin ;-)

Shakespeare may have existed, but it seems like some of the plays were ghost written by others.  He was more of a producer at times.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Quote from: omokuroi on January 16, 2018, 12:26:35 PM
For years I've played around with a sort of metafiction wherein the many-worlds interpretation is true, and another universe has managed to link up with this one and make it into something of a personal playground. Actually, it turns out modern humans were very much based on the image of the beings in that universe, and that the technology they used to shape this universe can be used to, to some extent, alter reality to suit the collective will of humanity. This turns out to be the origin of a few miracles... and also inadvertently ends up creating two of the primary antagonists of the (potential) series, one created by the people of the other universe, and one created by humans.

I've thought about this a lot. This is actually less detailed than I usually go.
A couple of months back I read a book called The Long Earth, by Steven Baxter:

QuoteThe "Long Earth" is a (possibly infinite) series of parallel worlds that are similar to Earth, which can be reached by using an inexpensive device called a "Stepper". The "close" worlds are almost identical to "our" Earth (referred to as "Datum Earth"), others differ in greater and greater details, but all share one similarity: on none are there, or have there ever been, Homo sapiens â€" although the same cannot be said of earlier hominid species, especially Homo habilis.

It's a fascinating look at the implications of the connection of all the parallel Earths.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

#56
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 16, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
Well, there's this, which I read a couple of years ago:

Towing Jehovah
It was quite an interesting read, actually.

Borrowed from Kabbalah?  In one early form of Kabbalah, the body of G-d is imagined to the the Earth itself, or the universe itself.  We are like fleas or microbes on it.  Called Shiur Koma.

See, Unbeliever ... you can believe parallel universes, but G-d is too much for you ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

I don't know enough of kabbalah to make any claim of borrowing, but you could be right. You'd probably have to ask the author.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 16, 2018, 02:07:20 PM
I don't know enough of kabbalah to make any claim of borrowing, but you could be right. You'd probably have to ask the author.

Any good meme is worth stealing.  But you have to disguise where you borrowed it from.  This is called poetic license (to plagarize)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 16, 2018, 02:03:15 PM
A couple of months back I read a book called The Long Earth, by Steven Baxter:

It's a fascinating look at the implications of the connection of all the parallel Earths.

You're the third person who has recommended this book recently. Sounds like a good read.