Author Topic: A Few Questions  (Read 4625 times)

Offline Hydra009

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2018, 12:43:18 AM »
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In case you have heard otherwise from believers, the Crusades were a true travesty motivated by political gain with spirituality used as the cudgel (I dare not say Christianity as it did not adhere to the teachings of Christ).
Without a doubt, Byzantium cleverly recruited european Christians as their catspaws - the crusaders reclaim lost territory, hand it over (as the crusader states attest, that part was kinda iffy), and in return the crusaders get their sins redeemed and whatever other invisible, unverifiable rewards they desire.  It was a brillaint con.  Well, right up until the sack of Constantinople.  It turns out that zealots can't really be trusted.  Who'd have thought.

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There are distinctions that I do believe are necessary between Christians "sects" especially when it comes to fundamental issues.
And the great schism was coincidentally between the Christians of the capitals of the Western and Eastern halves of the Roman Empire.  Arguably, there was a political element here as well.

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That's why I may put Catholic belief separate from my own--but also acknowledge that there are Catholics who are saved: followers of Christ and not just the church (not to sound too "squishy" but there are Baptists who would need this distinction as well). A Christian should be a Christ follower first and a member of their denomination second.
Understood! There are ideals, but also possibly, a hierarchy of ideals. I would acknowledge much the same!
This sort of pan-Christianity is certainly in vogue at the moment.  From the inside, it looks like Christians recognizing their shared values and unifying.  From the outside, it looks like a consolidation of dwindling congregations, a move more practical than spiritual.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 12:44:59 AM by Hydra009 »

Online Shiranu

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2018, 02:17:00 AM »
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Thank you for the detail! I can see where churches like what you describe would push you away from belief!

Actually, tbh, it wasn't so much that which made me stop believing as much as... well, I just stopped believing.

Unlike many atheists, particularly self-identifying atheists... I really have very little against religion, or any active dislike of it as a theology (I do share the dislike for organized religions bigotry though). If it was a choice for me, I would be religious rather than not.

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What would be one or two Shinto beliefs you think would help the West?

First, the idea of kami... not as theological, divine beings but rather it's more primal definition; nature that inspires awe and reverence in someone, to the point that the object becomes divine. Modern society has become so far removed from nature through technology that this reverence for kami has been lost to so much of my generation, as well as the older and younger ones. And I think older generations that were closer to nature didn't show adequate respect to it either; we have always viewed nature as something to be exploited rather than something to be revered and appreciative of.

This is a broad generalization of course, and I don't mean to imply that the West is exclusively unappreciative of nature and that the Japanese are all nature lovers, but the tradition of finding such beauty in nature is certainly historically more rare in the West (the people who do have always had labels like "the Romantics", "Hippies", etc.) and more common in Japan (as well as some trains of Chinese and Eastern Asian philosophy, or even the animists of Africa or the Americas).

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Offline Baruch

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2018, 07:20:36 AM »
The proto-renaissance began with Petrarch hiking up Mt Ventoux.  Not the only one, but the one who got the credit, for reviving European interest in nature.

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Petrarch was a classicist who revived the works of Cicero, and followed Dante, in inventing Italian poetry.

And example of how history is always a contemporary construct, the contemporary always receding into the past:
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So what did or didn't happen?  And did it matter, since the propaganda of Petrarch was effective for centuries?  And how did others deconstruct his works, to illustrate their own ideas from 1860 ...

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But others more recently have chosen to deny there was a Dark Ages at all ...

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And then there is the myth of progress, the myth of the Enlightenment, the myth of modernity ...

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... every generation, re-deconstructing the past via teen rebellion.

The current cycle of cyclical history, deluded by seemingly unlimited cheap hydrocarbons, and free lunch via fiat money.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 02:19:59 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2018, 05:35:11 PM »
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2. If one is logical, one is a Vulcan, not a human.

People aren't logical or illogical, people are human - concepts are logical of illogical.
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“Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”
Miyamoto Musashi

Offline aitm

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2018, 07:40:51 PM »
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3.-Describe what the term Jesus Christ means to you.

odd that you refer to JC as a "term".  None-the-less....JC .....if he actually existed was a better con man than most, but not that good. His followers were far better con men than he ever was. The spread of Christianity was not because of JC but in spite of "him".

Here is the thing most missed about JC and his "teaching" and his immediate followers.

 IF, the immediate followers of JC ACTUALLY believed in his words as TRUTH, there would be no christians alive. They all would have been dead within 70 years of the death of JC. This is proven by the babble itself.

How odd eh? If christians truly believed in the words of JC there would actually be no christians left.

And before you ask me to show you the verse that proves this, understand that NOT knowing this verse, proves you never actually read the babble. And secondly, no, I will not give you the verse. Either read the babble or stfu.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2018, 09:28:13 PM »
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People aren't logical or illogical, people are human - concepts are logical of illogical.

Sets of concepts are consistent or contingent or inconsistent.  Doesn't make them right or wrong.  And a single concept by itself isn't logical or illogical, right or wrong.
שלום

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2018, 12:35:02 PM »
Hello again friends! I wanted to pop back in to affirm that I am indeed alive. It was certainly the worst flu of my life and I wound up lying in bed for almost two weeks straight. I like to think I'm a strapping young man, so it certainly took me by surprise...

I wanted to let you know that I read each of your responses and took some time to consider them as well. You all have taught me and for that I am grateful. My graduate work presses onward and as I have continued, I have made a point to move away from "churched" language (Which can sometimes be self-evidential--I have made a point to notice and correct this in my own work!) and to address issues with an appreciation for opposing study (As suggested by Mike CL, Richard Carrier has found a way into my studies and while find much of his work to be lacking, I believe his perspective *has* to be addressed. And addressed well).

I appreciate your perspective, but I especially appreciate your stories. Evidence, reason, and sourcing matter, but what I believe matters immeasurably more is a person: their complexities, their richness of personality, and their background. The Bible says that man is made in the image of God and that means that each person bears value and significance and a vibrancy in life beyond anything we can fathom. One more thing, this community values truth so highly! I am impressed and inspired by that!

I humbly apologize again for not doing justice to your questions and responses--I feel as though at this point addressing some and not others would do a disservice to all and my lack of time would compel me to do just that. Considering the distance and coldness of the internet, you all have been pleasant hosts. I hope to cross paths with you in the future!

Offline Baruch

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 12:39:04 PM »
Get well.
שלום

Online trdsf

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 03:20:12 PM »
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Hello again friends! I wanted to pop back in to affirm that I am indeed alive. It was certainly the worst flu of my life and I wound up lying in bed for almost two weeks straight. I like to think I'm a strapping young man, so it certainly took me by surprise...
This year's flu(s) was/were awful; I had two rounds, one around xmas and another one about three weeks later; the cough still hasn't entirely gone away.  I went to one of those clinic things in the local pharmacy, and their diagnosis was "Yeah, this year's flu really sucks."

The irony being, this was the first year in I don't know how long that I actually got the annual flu shot.  For whatever reason, it wasn't especially effective against this year's bug...
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 05:49:01 PM »
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This year's flu(s) was/were awful; I had two rounds, one around xmas and another one about three weeks later; the cough still hasn't entirely gone away.  I went to one of those clinic things in the local pharmacy, and their diagnosis was "Yeah, this year's flu really sucks."

The irony being, this was the first year in I don't know how long that I actually got the annual flu shot.  For whatever reason, it wasn't especially effective against this year's bug...
I heard or read that it was about 10% effective this year; and was led to think that that was much lower than usual.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 07:00:40 PM »
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I heard or read that it was about 10% effective this year; and was led to think that that was much lower than usual.

Coworker out with Influenza A Wed-Sun.  He was back today.  Yikes!  Being medical personnel, I take the immunization every year.
שלום

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2018, 08:09:51 PM »
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Coworker out with Influenza A Wed-Sun.  He was back today.  Yikes!  Being medical personnel, I take the immunization every year.
I get them every year.  In fact, I get the super duper senior citizen type. :))
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2018, 02:17:36 AM »
While others have answered in great detail, it still amuses me to reply to your original questions.

1. -How would you describe your religious background and church involvement?

Atheist from childhood.  Though I did enjoy earning money as a teen by shoveling the snow off the church sidewalks at a nice fee.

2. -To you, what is God like? Describe God. Or if you do not believe in God, then: what is important in life?

There is no diety of any sort, from any evidence.  But human society works for itself.  Honesty, trust, ethics all exist without a deity.  Why?  Because they work for us.

3.-Describe what the term Jesus Christ means to you.

Myth in the sense that such a person ever existed.  Dreams, in the sense that ideas are good and sometimes assigning ideals to a dream make us think about them in reality.

4.-What defines what is good and bad? How are we able to know?

What makes interpersonal relations work is good.  The opposite, bad.  Why is this such a hard question?  I know good and bad without a deity telling me what it is.

5.-What to you is the most significant issue with the Christian church? The most significant benefit from the same church?

They are obsessed lunatics who force their closest followers to warp their lives attempting to follow the contradictions of the faith.  I don't see any benefits.    And the same to all theisms...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2018, 05:17:44 AM »
But if humanity is the deity ... then your answer matches mine ... minus optional metaphysics.
שלום

Re: A Few Questions
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2018, 03:31:47 PM »
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Hello again friends! I wanted to pop back in to affirm that I am indeed alive. It was certainly the worst flu of my life and I wound up lying in bed for almost two weeks straight. I like to think I'm a strapping young man, so it certainly took me by surprise...

I wanted to let you know that I read each of your responses and took some time to consider them as well. You all have taught me and for that I am grateful. My graduate work presses onward and as I have continued, I have made a point to move away from "churched" language (Which can sometimes be self-evidential--I have made a point to notice and correct this in my own work!) and to address issues with an appreciation for opposing study (As suggested by Mike CL, Richard Carrier has found a way into my studies and while find much of his work to be lacking, I believe his perspective *has* to be addressed. And addressed well).

I appreciate your perspective, but I especially appreciate your stories. Evidence, reason, and sourcing matter, but what I believe matters immeasurably more is a person: their complexities, their richness of personality, and their background. The Bible says that man is made in the image of God and that means that each person bears value and significance and a vibrancy in life beyond anything we can fathom. One more thing, this community values truth so highly! I am impressed and inspired by that!

I humbly apologize again for not doing justice to your questions and responses--I feel as though at this point addressing some and not others would do a disservice to all and my lack of time would compel me to do just that. Considering the distance and coldness of the internet, you all have been pleasant hosts. I hope to cross paths with you in the future!

Feel free to stick around, if you like. You've been very reasonable in your time here. We could always use a few more opposing viewpoints, and you don't seem like the usual brain dead theists who come here looking to preach at us.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

 

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