Author Topic: News from Iran  (Read 1223 times)

Offline Shiranu

Re: News from Iran
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 07:28:53 PM »
Quote
hiranu is right that there was a time their country was progressing into something more educated and coming out of the dark ages, but then it regressed due to takeover from those in nearby regions.

I think Baruch mostly addressed this, but the multiple over-throws of their democracy were led first by England to protect the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (now British Petrol), and then by the United States first for England's interests and then to combat the communists. Just look up Mossadegh, the Shah, the Ayatollah...

Persian Islam (Shia) is extremely different from their neighbours in hierarchy and practice; their neighbours hate them, outside of a few pockets like Lebanon. So we cant blame the Saudis or whoever... this is strictly a Western created theocracy.


This can also be seen in Afghanistan; it was relatively democratized and secular before we funded religious radicals to fight the communists. It's easy to blame Islam for the extremism in the Middle East, but it's not so easy to look at who funded the extremism, who gave them power in the first place. When you look at the history of Islam, before we and the Saudi's funded radicalism, the Middle East was actually on track to be very progressive.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 08:08:35 PM by Shiranu »
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: News from Iran
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2018, 12:57:04 PM »
Relevant but not limited to Iran situation.

Amadinajad has been arrested for inciting riots.  So is he a CIA stooge too?

Gen Mattis, SecDef in recent interview:

While speaking with a gaggle of reporters this afternoon, Mattis was asked what his biggest military concern of 2018 was.

His response:

“I don’t have concerns. I create them”

The quote follows in a long tradition of magnificent Mattis quotes, including his answer to what keeps him awake at night:

“Nothing. I Keep Other People Awake At Night.”

This is why a coward like Dick Cheney isn't so scary, but this guy is.  Read Sun Tzu.  You want all opponents to shit their pants, just thinking of you.  And if necessary, you get to kill your opponent, effectively and efficiently ... but it is far better to defeat your opponent, without actual fighting.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: News from Iran
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 09:01:22 AM »
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Iran in 1979 was only progressive, in Teheran, and only in the educated upper class.  The people in the countryside, and the uneducated or middle to lower class ... weren't progressive.  Egypt is similar today, only no oil.  We aren't talking Sweden here (a monarchy, and pre-2000 for example).  Persia is a cross between India and Arabia.

Typical Third World country with lots of oil, and with lots of context (neighbors and past).  Would you really like having the Soviets, Iraqis, Afghanis, Turks and Pakistanis for neighbors?  It has always been a tough neighborhood, though they have made 2 steps forward, one step back, for over 2,500 years now. 

Two problems, the Shah was a Western puppet, and a brutal tyrant.  In the context of the Cold War, he couldn't be less ... same with the other un-democratic regimes from 1945 - 1995.  We are only one generation past that, but now everyone is nostalgic for the Cold War and the groovy Sixties.  A dog returns to its vomit!

Might it be possible that some areas of the world with overwhelmingly powerful religious beliefs could be a cause of their own problems?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: News from Iran
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 02:34:53 PM »
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Might it be possible that some areas of the world with overwhelmingly powerful religious beliefs could be a cause of their own problems?

One has to be very careful what one believes.  Not all beliefs are equal.  But you gotta believe something.  Believing in yourself helps.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: News from Iran
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 02:52:26 PM »
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One has to be very careful what one believes.  Not all beliefs are equal.  But you gotta believe something.  Believing in yourself helps.

Oh, I "believe" in nothing.  I do have some long-considered conclusions though.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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