White left

[Mike Cl]

That is because I don't give a flying fuck what any of you think.
Have a nice day.

Really?  Clearly you post here because you want to change our way of thinking, so you must care. 

[pr126]

Really?  Clearly you post here because you want to change our way of thinking, so you must care. 

I don't think there is the slightest possibility to change an indoctrinated leftist mind.
For some, it has become a religion. Dissenters are heretics, or in the new language called fascist, Nazi.
That includes millions of Trump voters.

Talking about fascist and Nazis, the Antifa who claim to be anti-fascist, are using the same tactics as Hitler's brown shirts.

The only difference is that the brown shirts didn't cover their faces.
And didn't carry any communist flags either.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Liberal fascism

As opposed to the type you preach?

[Gilgamesh]

Socialism is, simply, better because it works; you look at the countries with the highest standards of living, highest level of happiness, highest wealth... and they all lean closer to the socialism spectrum than capitalism/crony capitalism spectrum. This is an unarguable fact. Let's look at the top countries by wealth...

No, they don't. All countries you have in mind when you say this have a capitalist economic system. They have socialist policies, but socialist policies =/= socialism. You don't know what socialism is. It's a folly of language, really, but socialist policies don't inherently have anything to do with socialism.

[Gilgamesh]

"Damn the left for being so closed minded and intolerant! I'm nothing like them! It's okay to have a different opinion, so long as it's an opinion I like!"

Well, yeah. You're allowed to be wrong, but I wouldn't call it okay. People holding positions on things that don't accurately describe objective reality as it really is is responsible for 75% of humanities woes.

If you're a leftist or a right-winger, you are an idiot. To be either is to say that part of what goes into your deciding what is accurate and inaccurate is your tribes currently existing consensus on it. That's stupid.

[Mike Cl]

I don't think there is the slightest possibility to change an indoctrinated leftist mind.

I quite agree.  Any mind that is indoctrinated is difficult, if not impossible, to change, or even impact.  And I see your mind as being indoctrinated.  That's why I rarely reply to your posts--there is no point to it, for you will never change your indoctrinated mind.

[Gilgamesh]

For Shiranu:

Socialism is when a communist party becomes in-control of a government - either by seizing it or by democratic means -  gets rid of capitalism and the free market, and uses the government to move towards communism, with the end-goal to abolish itself (the party - now government) because communism is inherently without government. It is considered a stepping stone towards communism.

(Also, for communism to exist, it doesn't necessarily need socialism to come beforehand. Like I said, socialism is considered but a helpful tool to bring about communism, but not absolutely necessary.)

Now, things never really work out as intended with marxist bullshit, but those are the theories, anyway. For example, every single time a communist party takes control of a governing body, it loses sight of itself with its new-found power and therefore never actually abolishes itself to bring about the communism it promised. Rather it becomes a totalitarianist shit-hole.

But yeah, literally none of the countries you mentioned in that post were socialist states...

[PickelledEggs]

Actually socialism =/= communism.... But at the same time, socialism is not better than capitalism. It's important that there is a blend. Neither would be good on their own. So, Shir and Gilgamesh, you're both kind of right. At least in part.

[Gilgamesh]

Actually socialism =/= communism.... But at the same time, socialism is not better than capitalism. It's important that there is a blend. Neither would be good on their own. So, Shir and Gilgamesh, you're both kind of right. At least in part.

It doesn't = communism, and I never said it did. Socialism is inherently a means to an end, though, and that end is communism. You can disagree and be wrong; that's fine. Go to a socialism/communism board and ask them what these terms mean - they'll tell you exactly what I just said.

Then again, you could just be confusing socialist policies with what constitutes a socialist state. They don't have anything inherently to do with one another. Again, it's a folly of language that we call certain policies socialist, and we call a system of government socialist, while they don't necessarily have a logical connection.

[Shiranu]

No, they don't. All countries you have in mind when you say this have a capitalist economic system.

That lean towards socialist policies. Which is what I said...

It's a folly of language, really, but socialist policies don't inherently have anything to do with socialism.

Social democracy and social liberalism, which is the government style found in countries like those in Scandinavia, Western Europe, etc. , is under the blanket term of socialism. So yes, social democracy is a form of socialism... just as it is also a form of capitalism. Hence the reason I said socialist leaning, not pure socialist.

Particularly here in America, the term socialist is used as a catch-all for those because there are no basically no true socialist countries in the world. If we were to say, "those socialist countries...", we would be talking about no one since they don't exist. So it's kinda an expectation of who we are talking to using common sense and realising we aren't talking about communist-esque socialism, but social socialism.

[Shiranu]

Still waiting for a response to this...

Really? You think blacks weren't discriminated against? That's why the affirmative action programs were put in place.

Though I think it is worded it a bit wrong... leaves open the retort of, "That was the past, not now!" to avoid that it still happens...

[Gilgamesh]

That lean towards socialist policies. Which is what I said...

Every country you mentioned is literally a state with a capitalist economic system. They don't 'lean more towoards socialism than capitalism' as you put it, because they are literally capitalist states and literally NOT socialist states. It's a fucking binary.

Social democracy and social liberalism, which is the government style found in countries like those in Scandinavia, Western Europe, etc. , is under the blanket term of socialism.

Wrong. Go read a book on socialism or ask actual socialists what socialism is. Your 'social liberalism' is not socialism. Actual socialists/communists believe liberals are inherently right-wing.

just stop talking about shit you know nothing about please. You consistently posit things as true that are the opposite of truth.

[Gilgamesh]

Still waiting for a response to this...

"Really? You think blacks weren't discriminated against? That's why the affirmative action programs were put in place. "

Though I think it is worded it a bit wrong... leaves open the retort of, "That was the past, not now!" to avoid that it still happens...

I do think blacks were discriminated against, yes.

[Shiranu]

Every country you mentioned is literally a state with a capitalist economic system. They don't 'lean more towoards socialism than capitalism' as you put it, because they are literally capitalist states and literally NOT socialist states. It's a fucking binary.

Except they aren't.

Our highways are socialized. Our police are socialized. Our libraries are socialized. There are socialized radio and T.V. stations. Our postal service is socialized. Our college education loans are half socialized, half privatized. Garbage collection, the farming industry, Congressional health care, the EPA, public schools, museums, food stamps are all socialized or mixed. The list literally goes on, and on, and on, and on...

Socialism and capitalism are not, "either/or". That's why communism failed (amongst many other reasons) and that's why "pure" capitalism fails as well.

Wrong. Go read a book on socialism or ask actual socialists what socialism is. Your 'social liberalism' is not socialism. Actual socialists/communists believe liberals are inherently right-wing.

That's nice, but social liberalism and social democracy policies fall under the definition of socialism, so they can cry about that all they want.

just stop talking about shit you know nothing about please.

Says the guy who thinks you cant be capitalist and socialist at the same time. Yeah, don't think that's going to happen.

I do think blacks were discriminated against, yes.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Gilgamesh]

Except they aren't.

Our highways are socialized. Our police are socialized. Our libraries are socialized. There are socialized radio and T.V. stations. Our postal service is socialized. Our college education loans are half socialized, half privatized. Garbage collection, the farming industry, Congressional health care, the EPA, public schools, museums, food stamps are all socialized or mixed. The list literally goes on, and on, and on, and on...

Yes - and none of those policies make the state that employs them any more a socialist state. Socialist policies =/= socialist state. You're getting confused with the semantics of it. Both terms evolved naturally from the term, 'social' - but they did so separately. A socialist state is a very specific thing.