Author Topic: The Illegal Immigration Issue...  (Read 731 times)

Offline ƵenKlassen

The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« on: December 25, 2017, 09:36:52 AM »
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I wish Donald Trump would get off his ass and finally start building that wall...


You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

Offline Baruch

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 10:32:56 AM »
I understand how you feel.  Being around alien cultures is challenging and trying, and over time one's own nation becomes a stranger.  But the Beetles aren't making any more comebacks.

The powers that be, need the internal slaves (citizens) and the external slaves (mostly illegally trafficked persons).  The Wall is dealing with a symptom, it is bound to fail, even if built.  Replacing the people who embody the powers that be, changes not much also.  History is a machine, like Charlie Chaplin in the movie "Modern Times" where ordinary people are caught up in the remorseless gears of time.

It would be easier, and was, that the earlier immigrants were Europeans.  But the English-Americans hated the importation of the Irish, the Scots and the Welsh ... just as much as the later Americans hated the importation of the Poles, Jews and Italians.  So it goes, in a country based on immigrants, as opposed to Japan which is not.  The US will never be Japan, isolated and ethnically pure.  It is like Rome, not Greece.

Everything is psychology, and nature behind that.  Sometimes we have to look beyond the present.  For something to go on living, something has to die, be sacrificed.  That is what foods are, that is what historical change is (I won't call it progress).  In the longer term, the parents have to die, for the children to flourish, otherwise the parents become a terrible burden.

This applies to culture/nations/ethnicities as well.  So for example, the only way for America to continue, is to become a new America, but for that to happen, the old America must die.  What is valuable in American culture will continue, but with new faces, and eventually in different languages.  In the longer term the US will be legend, not even history.  But I am not saying that the future America is an SJW America.

Israel has a wall, but they will change in time into just another bunch of Arabs, probably become their own sect of Shia Muslims, their own dialect of Arabic as Egyptians do.  Britain has the Channel, but they have imported so many non-British people, I can't see them being a new Japan either.  Because of language similarity, Taiwan will probably rejoin the Mainland.  Korea has been a problem for 1500 years, I don't see that changing any time soon.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 10:35:01 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 05:24:31 AM »
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I understand how you feel.  Being around alien cultures is challenging and trying, and over time one's own nation becomes a stranger.  But the Beetles aren't making any more comebacks.

The powers that be, need the internal slaves (citizens) and the external slaves (mostly illegally trafficked persons).  The Wall is dealing with a symptom, it is bound to fail, even if built.  Replacing the people who embody the powers that be, changes not much also.  History is a machine, like Charlie Chaplin in the movie "Modern Times" where ordinary people are caught up in the remorseless gears of time.

It would be easier, and was, that the earlier immigrants were Europeans.  But the English-Americans hated the importation of the Irish, the Scots and the Welsh ... just as much as the later Americans hated the importation of the Poles, Jews and Italians.  So it goes, in a country based on immigrants, as opposed to Japan which is not.  The US will never be Japan, isolated and ethnically pure.  It is like Rome, not Greece.

Everything is psychology, and nature behind that.  Sometimes we have to look beyond the present.  For something to go on living, something has to die, be sacrificed.  That is what foods are, that is what historical change is (I won't call it progress).  In the longer term, the parents have to die, for the children to flourish, otherwise the parents become a terrible burden.

This applies to culture/nations/ethnicities as well.  So for example, the only way for America to continue, is to become a new America, but for that to happen, the old America must die.  What is valuable in American culture will continue, but with new faces, and eventually in different languages.  In the longer term the US will be legend, not even history.  But I am not saying that the future America is an SJW America.

Israel has a wall, but they will change in time into just another bunch of Arabs, probably become their own sect of Shia Muslims, their own dialect of Arabic as Egyptians do.  Britain has the Channel, but they have imported so many non-British people, I can't see them being a new Japan either.  Because of language similarity, Taiwan will probably rejoin the Mainland.  Korea has been a problem for 1500 years, I don't see that changing any time soon.

 I laugh at some of your details, but not at the broad sweep.  Your view is a distinct possibility.  People tend to think that history will stay as things are in the present.  Tell that to the Romans...

But there are chances yet.  Cheer up, maybe we will just destroy ourselves in a nuclear conflagration (but without a Rapture) first.  See?  It can always get worse.

Que Sera Sera...

Perhaps China will be The Middle Kingdom once again.  Or India will blow them to hell and back and Shiva will rule.  Or Brazil will become a new level of Democracy. 

We don't know.  I do see the US and Europe failing in some scenarios.  And not in others.  The future is fungible.

Merry non-sectarian Xmas and a Happy New Year! 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 09:43:54 AM »
If I'm understanding you right, and you sympathize with the asshole characters in that video, you are truly more worthless than shit. At least I can use manure to make food. A racist asshole is about as useful as a plague of locusts.

First of all, dumbass, we were not the first ones to come here. Not that you care, I'm sure. The white men stole this land from the natives and forced them to assimilate to their culture, their religion, and their language. "This is not your country" is real rich coming from someone who's ancestors stole this country.

Second, immigrants are good for the economy, not bad, especially the illegal ones. Not only do they work jobs we don't want to do (unless you're aspiring to clean up a college campus after it closes), not only do they create new businesses, they put more money into the system. Taxes are taken out of their paychecks, and when the time comes for America to apply for tax returns, how much of that do you think they get back? Nothing. The notion that illegal immigrants are somehow not paying any taxes, yet benefiting from tax-paid programs is complete bullshit.

Third, the "this is America, speak English" complaint is even more bullshit. Imagine you and your family (assuming you have one) move to Germany for a business opportunity. You and your family do not speak German, but there are accommodations made for you so you can adjust. Now imagine every time you were in public and you were speaking with your family, some German man said to you in the German language, "This is Germany! Speak German!" Who are the assholes, you and your family, or the guy who expects you and your family to become fluent in his language and then never speak your first language ever again?

Fourth, only a moron would think that building a wall cutting off the Southern border would economically feasible or even effective. Even Donald Trump debunked his own claim in the middle of a speech about why we need a wall: "I'm going to build a wall thirty feet high. They're not getting over that. Well, maybe with a rope." A rope? What is this new technology used for climbing and lifting things? It's so revolutionary! I bet people could even climb mountains with those things, which are much higher than thirty feet tall! Also, most illegal immigrants come via plane, not crossing the boarder on foot. They overstay their green cards, and then they become illegal.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 09:50:48 AM by Blackleaf »
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Mermaid

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2017, 09:55:47 AM »
Give us your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free.

A wall is pure folly and support of it demonstrates a pointed lack of critical thinking skills. We are truly an idiocracy.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 09:24:31 AM »
Third, the "this is America, speak English" complaint is even more bullshit. Imagine you and your family (assuming you have one) move to Germany for a business opportunity. You and your family do not speak German, but there are accommodations made for you so you can adjust. Now imagine every time you were in public and you were speaking with your family, some German man said to you in the German language, "This is Germany! Speak German!" Who are the assholes, you and your family, or the guy who expects you and your family to become fluent in his language and then never speak your first language ever again?
[/quote]

I know the value of oter languages.  I study liguistics from time to time.

But I think there is a value in common language and cultural assimilation.  One can look at the Balkans and see the problems.

I want people from all over the world to come here to add to our culture.  Just not one group living by themselves and trying to be what they were escaping from..
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 09:46:07 AM »
It is NEVER illegal to be a human being. I really fucking hate this shit. Those on the far right would not say the same damned thing if they were in the position of choosing to stay in conditions of poverty, famine, crime and war, or to flee to try to find a safer more stable life. Survival is what humans want and that is universal. There are 2 million Americans in our prison system, and the vast majority are NOT MIGRANTS but people born here. It is one thing to want to keep violent people out, it is another to be a dick and lack empathy for non violent humans.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The Illegal Immigration Issue...
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 11:01:43 AM »
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It is NEVER illegal to be a human being. I really fucking hate this shit. Those on the far right would not say the same damned thing if they were in the position of choosing to stay in conditions of poverty, famine, crime and war, or to flee to try to find a safer more stable life. Survival is what humans want and that is universal. There are 2 million Americans in our prison system, and the vast majority are NOT MIGRANTS but people born here. It is one thing to want to keep violent people out, it is another to be a dick and lack empathy for non violent humans.

It isn't about poverty.  It is about assimilation.  I fully support a balance of new and existing.  Not just from one area.  I want everyone from the WHOLE DAMN WORLD to come here as fast as we can make a blend of cultures. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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