Author Topic: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe  (Read 889 times)

Offline Shiranu

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_W0HFy9Et4[/youtube]

She spends most of the time talking about problems within the Muslim community and what they need to address, which obviously isn't relevant for us, but there are a few points she makes that are relevant outside of that community.


1. The West does not do enough to help moderate Muslims escape from fundamentalist Muslim/traditional-honor-based cultured families. The story she gives is of a Kurdish girl who was forced to marry an abusive husband who raped her. After leaving and finding someone she loved she disappeared, and three months later was found stuffed in a briefcase underneath her cousin's house.

The problem here is that she went to the police five times, who would not believe her story or take it seriously, that her life was in danger. We have to be more aware as a society that this is a legitimate issue and that we need to help people like this before it's too late. But this is not a dialog we are having in our society; we are discussing are they evil, aren't they evil... are they all out to kill us, are they not all out to get us.

This conversation has to stop. While we get to sit back and bicker over should we treat our fellow human beings with respect and like actual human beings or should we fear anyone who doesn't look and think like us, we close our ears and eyes to these people actually asking us for help. We are so caught up in being afraid, or in trying to combat that fear, that we are ignoring issues that actually matter.


2. The people who do these monstrous acts, like those who do them within our community, are not generally just horrible people with a horrible ideology. They are people who come from broken homes, who are alienated, who live in fear. They are people that feel they don't belong, and thus become bullies... and then killers, all because we turned our backs on them and allowed truly evil men who want to use them for their own advantage to prey on them.

This isn't just an Islam issue; it can be applied to African Americans and Latinos who get involved with gangs, or whites who join organizations like the KKK. The story is overwhelmingly the same, even if the characters are different, in video after video and book after book and study after study over how these violent groups operate. Instead of arguing again over if Muslims are just inherently violent, if African Americans are just a bunch of hoodrat gangbangers, if Latinos are just a bunch of drug smuggling cartel types, and if rednecks are just racists... let's argue about what the fuck we can do to improve the quality of life in these areas, about how we can provide better education, better social services, better ways out of that type of life.

We look at the problem, and say, "let's treat the symptom", rather than look at the problem and say, "Let's treat the problem."


There are a few more things I really appreciated out of it, but for sake of not letting this post get to long, I'll save that for later. I frankly don't know if anyone even watches or reads anything I post anymore, but I don't want to be accused of not speaking my mind even if no one listens.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

"Intellectualization creates a gap or lack of rapport between you and your life. You may think about things so much that you get into the state where you are eating the menu instead of the dinner." -Alan Watts

Online Baruch

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 08:12:23 AM »
There are lots of ways, Muslims can be radicalized in the West, it isn't just their families or mosque.  The answer is turn off their access to inappropriate Internet web sites.

Europeans have a greater fear (irrational) of youth (hooligans) than Americans do.  The answer is greater knowledge, and desensitizing.
שלום

Online Cavebear

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 05:52:21 AM »
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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_W0HFy9Et4[/youtube]

She spends most of the time talking about problems within the Muslim community and what they need to address, which obviously isn't relevant for us, but there are a few points she makes that are relevant outside of that community.

We don't help more because all offers of help seem to get responses of "CRUSADERS" or "infidels", and that doesn't encourage a lot of offers. 

And I do not forget that after Moslems flew planes into the World Trade Center Buildings, there WERE Moslems dancing and cheering in the streets of their countries.  That sort of thing makes it somewhat difficult to be very sympathetic.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 07:06:11 AM »
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1. The West does not do enough to help moderate Muslims escape from fundamentalist Muslim/traditional-honor-based cultured families.

Good video. Deeyah Khan talks about letting people choose who they love and parents putting their children before the honor of the family, which are Western values. Shiranu, do you think there is a conflict between respecting someone's culture and values, Muslim or otherwise, and intervening based on Western norms, which tend to focus on the wants of the individual over the expectation of family or community?
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Online Cavebear

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 11:55:27 AM »
I generally look forward to some day in the future when all humankind is one about tolerating all peaceful ideas and THEN we can move out into space to expand without causing harm.

Happy unspecific natural Solstice to all...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 01:11:47 PM »
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I generally look forward to some day in the future when all humankind is one about tolerating all peaceful ideas and THEN we can move out into space to expand without causing harm.

Happy unspecific natural Solstice to all...

The violent, people eating aliens, thank you for your pacifist contribution ;-)
שלום

Online Cavebear

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 02:02:39 PM »
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The violent, people eating aliens, thank you for your pacifist contribution ;-)

And they may not notice the simple shiv in my boot.  But really, do you expect we will venture into space and find an intelligence just like us at our same tech level?  Surely you are not that naive...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2017, 02:25:57 PM »
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And they may not notice the simple shiv in my boot.  But really, do you expect we will venture into space and find an intelligence just like us at our same tech level?  Surely you are not that naive...

I recognize science fantasy is ... fantasy.  And usually American-European flavored fantasy.. But how could drama present it otherwise?  The real thing would be unintelligible and unwatchable.  Our theater says things about us, here and now ... not about aliens, there and in a distant future.  Klingons, Vulcans and Terrans are ... us.
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Online Cavebear

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2017, 02:43:51 PM »
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I recognize science fantasy is ... fantasy.  And usually American-European flavored fantasy.. But how could drama present it otherwise?  The real thing would be unintelligible and unwatchable.  Our theater says things about us, here and now ... not about aliens, there and in a distant future.  Klingons, Vulcans and Terrans are ... us.

There's the problem.  You imagine we Terrans will meet others similar to us "out there".  Not a snowflake's chance in my fireplace...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 02:48:58 PM »
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There's the problem.  You imagine we Terrans will meet others similar to us "out there".  Not a snowflake's chance in my fireplace...

So?  You prefer unintelligible and unwatchable theater?  Like French perfume commercials much?  Scandinavian dramas perhaps?
שלום

Online Cavebear

Re: When Will We Listen To Our Youth? Understanding Muslim Youth in Europe
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 02:55:17 PM »
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So?  You prefer unintelligible and unwatchable theater?  Like French perfume commercials much?  Scandinavian dramas perhaps?

What does what you posted got to do with ANYTHING we're discussing?  I don't need this nonsense spittle.  I'm leaving for a while.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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