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Westworld TV Series

Started by SGOS, December 19, 2017, 10:37:04 AM

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Hydra009

s2e2

Well, I'll be damned.  I don't even know what to do with myself now.

SGOS

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 30, 2018, 02:15:10 AM
s2e2

Well, I'll be damned.  I don't even know what to do with myself now.
Well that's fairly enigmatic.

Hydra009

Quote from: SGOS on April 30, 2018, 02:21:31 AM
Well that's fairly enigmatic.
It makes sense given my earlier posts.

Spoiler-proof since you'd have to have both seen the episode and seen my earlier posts to understand my reaction.

Sal1981


Just saw s2e9, the episode before the finale next Sunday.[spoiler]
Sure you want to see spoilers? Mostly just bullet points, but big reveals.
[spoiler]
Dolores is the Deathbringer. Ford is alive as a host, inside Bernard or some shit. The Valley Beyond is the host facility for all the readouts of the guests (read: copies of their minds). William kills his own daughter, thinking it's some game by Ford, mistakingly. While Teddy kills himself after being altered "into a monster" by Dolores.


The preview to the finale shows that they go into the Valley Beyond facility and that there's a showdown between Dolores and William and some other exciting stuff.


oh and spoilception.
[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Hydra009

#34
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 30, 2018, 02:15:10 AM
s2e2

Well, I'll be damned.  I don't even know what to do with myself now.
I'm going to go ahead and explain this since it's such a fascinating and oft-overlooked part of the show.

For a while (since the start of the show), I've been curious (obsessed) about what life is like outside the titular park.  Lots of people have theories about what's really going on IN Westworld.  I have theories about what's going on OUTSIDE of Westworld.

[spoiler]In season 2 episode 2, we get our first real look of the outside world and man, is it disappointing.  The real world appears to be only slightly more futuristic - wealthier, cleaner, more well-behaved, with shiny tablets, but it's not super futuristic.  There's no flying cars or teleporters or starships (I think).

The world scene is pretty much just like the world we know - the mix of national and corporate power, same basic technology (just slightly better in terms of computing power and of course robots), same skyline, even the same clothes.  There's still a mix of rich and poor - the rich luxuriate by LARPing all day to the tune of $40,000 USD a day and the poor fix robots during their 12-hour shifts and relax with some VR.

As far as we know, VR and robotics are the two main technological breakthroughs that separate the world of Westworld from our world.  And the show focuses on the less prominent technology!

We know from Logan that during the beginning of Westworld, VR was a huge up-and-coming technology - it was for them a lot like smartphones were for us a decade ago.  Cut to 35 years later and the lab techs relax with some VR during their lunch breaks.  This technology has clearly gone mainstream.  Robotics, on the other hand, has not.

Just imagine the vast and immerse worlds created by VR programmers!  Who could possibly prefer Westworld to that!  Arnold, for one.  The proliferation of realistic-seeming but unrealistic worlds likely pushed Arnold to make Westworld in the first place.  Arnold wasn't satisfied with the illusion of consciousness - he wanted consciousness itself.  Presumably, he was deeply dissatisfied with VR AIs.

And we know in later episodes of Westworld that Westworld's main secret is its powerful virtual environments.  The heart of Westworld is VR.  VR perfected!  And with it, the power to change the world!

TL;DR:  robotics is so last century, VR is the future![/spoiler]

Hydra009

#35
Westworld S2E8 Kiksuya:

My second-favorite episode of Westworld after the season 1 finale.  It was that good.

[spoiler]Ghost Nation has always been a mysterious part of Westworld.  And we seemingly finally get answers about their true intentions.

However, the shocking twist is that the narrator is not reliable, so almost every part of Akecheta's moving story is dubious at best.

I've read a ton of reviews about this episode, and apparently, a lot of people didn't pick up on this.  I don't know how they missed it - but the fact that Akecheta and Maeve say the same thing at the same time and knowing what Charlotte said about Maeve's powers clearly indicates that Akecheta is saying what Maeve is directing him to say and doing what Maeve is directing him to do.

As the audience, we have no idea when he stopped talking and when she started talking.  For all we know, the entire monologue could have been Maeve's work.  Or most of it.  Or just the final line.  We just don't know.

Based on season 1 Ghost Nation's behavior (trying to scalp Maeve) and their interactions with Stubbs and the hosts (killing the hosts while sparing the humans), Akecheta's tale is only partially true, if any of it is truthful at all.[/spoiler]

Sal1981

Season 2 le grand finale
[spoiler]
The beginning of season 2 corpses around the lake of the Valley Beyond is finally explained. It was the result of the Hosts entering the Valley Beyond, leaving their physical bodies behind, or so it seems. There's a brief moment where the humans following the mischief band with Maeve where they ask where the Door to the Valley Beyond is, because only the Hosts can see it.

William fails in stopping Dolores entering the Valley Beyond facility, getting some fingers shot off because she rigged his gun with a spent bullet (how does that work, hmmm?). Anyways, there seems to be 2 time lines here still, the one with Dolores and the one with William, still.

The season finale seems to lay the ground work for a possible 3rd season, but this time in the real real world with Hosts walking among humans - at least, that what I think is implied in the ending of the season finale and how inside the Valley Beyond facility played out, particularly with Dolores' new body as Hale.

Post credits spoilers
[spoiler]
William goes to the Valley Beyond facility, only to find that it has been deserted a long time ago.It seems William was in a simulation all along, imagine that. A sort of poetic justice seeing as his predecessor, James Delos, was confined to a small quarters for his entire post-life existence and tested 149 times by William.[/spoiler]

Hydra009

#37
I liked the finale.  ...mostly.  It was certainly cool-looking, but there are some real head-scratchers here.  And not in a good way.  But overall, I'm happy with the resolution of the plot.

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGPcUq4Hts

Fun fact: I actually did order barbacoa instead of carnitas a few hours before I watched this video.  That line really weirded me out.[/spoiler]

Hydra009

#38
I've been plowing through Westworld critiques lately and here's one that really caught my attention:

Contains both Westworld and Game of Thrones spoilers:

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjKnMFv8dw

Like many other awesome shows, Westworld creates a bunch of factions who are out to annihilate the other factions.  Maeve VS the Man in Black.  Dolores VS Charlotte.  Charlotte VS Bernard.  Bernard VS Dolores.

That's great.  But the problem is that once you get any of them in a room together, they'll kill each other and all that juicy drama comes to an end.

So what happens when they finally come face to face?  Some third party intervenes and they're separated.  Deus ex machina.  Exhibit A:  Maeve getting shot up by some randos, cutting her confrontation with the MiB short.  Exhibit B:  Dolores getting interrupted from killing Charlotte and Charlotte somehow managing to make a break for it successfully.

Does this add anything to the story?  Nope.  Does it create unsatisfying scenes that mostly just annoy fans?  Yep.  But it's a way for the writers to escape from painting themselves in a corner, so we're stuck with it.

Another thing is that characters often just spin their wheels.  Maeve is the premier example of this.  You could cut 80% of her screentime and not miss out on much, which is a shame because she's one of the most interesting characters in the whole series.  Her companions have potential, too.  It's a shame they're written by a hack who never bothered developing them, but I guess that's what happens when you have to write 300 narratives in 3 weeks.  :P

Basically, this is what happens when you try to write an ensemble work and you don't quite stick the landing.  Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Westworld or anything, quite the opposite in fact, but stuff like this hurts it a little.

In the future (or the past?  It this now?), I hope the remaining 4 factions: Dolores (Magneto), Bernard (Professor X), Maeve (machine Neo), and MiB (team Chaotic Evil), are kept apart from each other for the most part, but their actions ripple outwards - affecting each other.  Like a planetary game of ...well...thrones.[/spoiler]

Hydra009

#39
So Westworld season 3 is out with more of all those things that we have always enjoyed: surprises and violence.

If you haven't caught up, just go ahead and watch it.  Chances are pretty good that you have enough free time now, lol.

[spoiler]So I've been chomping at the bit to see the world outside of Westworld - and man, does my cup runeth over!  Self-driving cars.  Cyberpunk implants.  Big data keeping tabs on everyone.  Mood shirts (I want one so bad!  Even if I have to select it manually, that'd still be pretty dope).  And RICO, the world's finest crime-facilitating app (the "make money motherfucker" and "No, I like being basic" catchphrases always amuse the hell out of me).  And the Architect (ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly)

So far, I really like the world.  It's set 20 minutes into the future, so it's still recognizable to us 20th century cavemen, but it looks flashy and high-tech enough to be kind of exciting.  The only odd thing about it is how sterile and practically empty the streets are.  It doesn't look lived-in and messy like the real world actually is.  An indication that this is a simulation?  Or just a production aesthetic?  It probably wouldn't be cheap to have a ton of futuristic cars in a shot, so I'm thinking a lot of this might just be due to budget rather than some big reveal.

+fatal divergence+ DOLORES: The Deathbringer seems remarkably restrained this season.  Good, I hated Season 2 Dolores.  But this season, she's a lot more empathetic.  She's an agent of disorder in a world of unjust order.  I'm on board with the robot uprising so far, though undoubtedly she's going to take things too far and go on a murder bender.  I don't see why she can't just try to appeal to disaffected humans.  I'm positive that millions of people would go full Aeon Illuminate and join her cause 100% willingly as long as they can live in peace and prosperity post-revolution.  Not every human wants to rape and murder robots, you know.  Which brings us to the next character->

+elevated scrutiny+ CALEB: My absolute favorite character this season.  A blue collar man screwed by the system and the ultra rich assholes who run it.  What wacky, far-fetched fiction!

Imo, the writers kinda went overboard by giving him a sick mom.  They didn't need to hammer home that he's a good guy that much.  They could have kept him a little shady - a basically good guy who moonlights as a criminal, but intentionally avoids the more reprehensible jobs.  That would have kept him empathic but not overly virtuous.

+divergence+ NOT-CHARLOTTE: I gotta tell you guys, I'm not a fan of this character.  She's very child-like and insecure, constantly needing reassurance and with some bizarre superstitious thinking and a hell of a mean streak.  She's not like any of the other hosts I've seen yet.

And no, she's not Teddy.  Imho, she's an original creation by Dolores - either a composite of various hosts or a reflection of Dolores herself.

+special circumstances+ SERAC: The Architect behind it all.  And of course, he'd be French.  I've gotta say, he lowkey makes a lot of sense.  Mankind is a horrible species and its fundamentally tribal and aggressive nature leads to loads of completely unnecessary misery and death around the world.  One could argue that Rehoboam's reign is on the whole better than the otherwise lawless and chaotic state of affairs.  For example, we know for a fact that a nuclear bomb was detonated against people in the future.  That's a hell of a no-no.  So some order is definitely a good thing.  But there's also a case that Rehoboam has gone too far and constrained humans too much.  There's also plenty of evidence that Rehoboam's simulations are incomplete and not quite accurate (hence the need for Forge-derived data).  This weakness is likely to lead to catastrophic failure.  Expect everyone's favorite unguarded, publicly accessible (why?) glowing orb to bite the dust in the near future.

+divergence+ MAEVE: Love her.  Now that she's done looking after her daughter, she'll actually have a decent arc this time around as an agent of freedom.  And she's well positioned to mediate some sort of truce between the hosts and the humans.

+low-grade anomaly+ BERNARD: To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why he's still in the show.  I'm not a fan of his Terminator alt-mode, though I suppose that's been there all along.  Hopefully, there will be some purpose to his buddy-cop antics with Ashley.

Theories:

Who is in Charlotte?  A duplicated, Wyatt-lite version of Dolores.  That's pretty much the only option given that it's someone Dolores trusts and can't live without and isn't Teddy and isn't Abernathy.

Is Serac a human or is he a fabrication of Rehoboam? He is 100% a human.  A lot of people jumped to conclusions based on a single non-face-to-face encounter.  (The simple explanation is that he was not there in person and took the call via VR)  He's impatient like a human.  He's judgmental like a human.  He's driven like a human.  Chances are pretty good that he's a human, imo.

Is Stubbs a host?  Noooo sh--i--it, She--rrr---lock.[/spoiler]

Hydra009


Hydra009

s3e6

[spoiler]Well, I'm back to hating Dolores again.  What she did was utterly unforgivable.

This episode truly surprised me a number of times.  Heart-wrenching.

Some people are saying that it's their favorite episode, but personally, I think episode 5 was better.  The scene with the man in white certainly puts this episode up there.  Self-discovery does tend to involve a bit of self-struggle. 

I've gotta say, I find Maeve more and more appealing as this season progresses.  There's a theory that she'll ultimately be the mediator between warring factions, like the ego between the id and superego.  I thought that person might be Bernard, and it still might, but that seems to be less likely.  We'll see.[/spoiler]

Mike Cl

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 20, 2020, 09:18:53 AM
s3e6

[spoiler]Well, I'm back to hating Dolores again.  What she did was utterly unforgivable.

This episode truly surprised me a number of times.  Heart-wrenching.

Some people are saying that it's their favorite episode, but personally, I think episode 5 was better.  The scene with the man in white certainly puts this episode up there.  Self-discovery does tend to involve a bit of self-struggle. 

I've gotta say, I find Maeve more and more appealing as this season progresses.  There's a theory that she'll ultimately be the mediator between warring factions, like the ego between the id and superego.  I thought that person might be Bernard, and it still might, but that seems to be less likely.  We'll see.[/spoiler]
Not a 'theory', but an hypothesis--sorry, couldn't resist.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Sal1981

episode 6. I don't know what I watched. Being drunk didn't help.

SGOS

Quote from: Sal1981 on April 20, 2020, 01:07:03 PM
episode 6. I don't know what I watched. Being drunk didn't help.
From my experience with the first two seasons, it took most of my mental abilities to just to take a stab at keeping up.  I think the premise of the series is wonderful, but it's easy to feel lost half the time.