Author Topic: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...  (Read 1757 times)

Offline Baruch

Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« on: December 17, 2017, 12:36:24 PM »
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I nuke commies, when they deserve it.  I in no way agree with Molyneux on other issues.  But this is a great dialog.

Of course owners and bosses are assholes.  But so are the rest of us.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 07:54:38 AM »
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is promoted by academia:

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I nuke commies, when they deserve it.  I in no way agree with Molyneux on other issues.  But this is a great dialog.

Of course owners and bosses are assholes.  But so are the rest of us.

I recognize that guy from TV comments, but I don't recall his name.  Nevertheless, I always laugh at his conclusions and think he is an idiot.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 09:49:41 PM »
He can't help he is from ... Canada.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2017, 02:25:55 AM »
"THE INABILITY TO IDENTIFY WITH OTHERS WAS UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITION FOR THE FACT THAT SOMETHING LIKE AUSCHWITZ COULD HAVE OCCURRED IN THE MIDST OF MORE OR LESS CIVILIZED AND INNOCENT PEOPLE. WHAT IS CALLED 'FELLOW TRAVELING' (COLLABORATION) WAS PRIMARILY BUSINESS INTEREST: ONE PURSUES ONE’S OWN ADVANTAGE BEFORE ALL ELSE AND, SIMPLY NOT TO ENDANGER ONESELF, DOES NOT TALK TOO MUCH. THAT IS A GENERAL LAW OF THE STATUS QUO." THEODOR ADORNO

That applies to both sets of thugs fighting for control of Washington DC.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Atheon

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 06:23:59 AM »
I thought Socialism and Marxism were abortions, solar power, gays, gun control, atheism and not saying Merry Christmas.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 06:56:10 AM »
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I thought Socialism and Marxism were abortions, solar power, gays, gun control, atheism and not saying Merry Christmas.

Actually "isms" are distractions, including capitalism.  The real question is ... are you healthy and sane.  Most people are not.  In particular, the question about the health of society, depends on the health of individuals, there is no collective health (except as a made up statistic).  Here is to everyone, to have a healthier and saner new year!!  And given the seasonal holidays ... take some time and effort and expense, to show compassion to your fellow human beings.  Otherwise the cattle cars are waiting for you.

Conservative = status quo.  Some things need to change ... the liberals are right about that.  But not everything needs to change.  Most change needs to be slow, reasonable change ... not revolutionary.  People who are addicted to notions of revolution, are like roller-coaster junkies.  Adrenalin freaks.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline pr126

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 08:31:49 AM »
When Socialism is applied correctly, you get Venezuela.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 11:42:27 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 01:08:24 PM »
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When Socialism is applied correctly, you get Venezuela.

Correct ... incorrect socialism (Stalinism) involves killing anyone who is inconvenient to your regime.  In this case, they should kill all the petroleum engineers or anyone competent at running the primary industry of that country.  In favor of the illiterates in the cardboard favelas.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 03:03:33 PM »
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When Socialism is applied correctly, you get Venezuela.

When capitalism is applied correctly, you get El Salvador, Bangladesh, Honduras, Pakistan, Mexico, Portugal under the Estado Novo, etc. ....

When right-wing ideology is applied correctly, you get Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Fascist Spain, basically every shitty dictatorship and junta in Central and South America, Burma, Kim Il-Sung's North Korea, Iran under the Ayatollah, Saudi Arabia...

I'm sorry, what was your point again? Too far left or too far right is bad, but if you add it up... there have been, and far more, examples of going too far right than there are of going too far left. And to act like Venezuela is solely to blame on left-policy is like blaming the global market crash a few years ago solely on right wing ideology.

Are you ever just... not wrong... about anything?
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 03:08:32 PM »
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When capitalism is applied correctly, you get El Salvador, Bangladesh, Honduras, Pakistan, Mexico, Portugal under the Estado Novo, etc. ....

When right-wing ideology is applied correctly, you get Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Fascist Spain, basically every shitty dictatorship and junta in Central and South America, Burma, Kim Il-Sung's North Korea, Iran under the Ayatollah, Saudi Arabia...

I'm sorry, what was your point again? Too far left or too far right is bad, but if you add it up... there have been, and far more, examples of going too far right than there are of going too far left. And to act like Venezuela is solely to blame on left-policy is like blaming the global market crash a few years ago solely on right wing ideology.

Are you ever just... not wrong... about anything?

That is the problem with planet ideology.  If a country just had a planet to its own, and if you could genetically engineer all the people into clones of Gandhi ... then things would go differently.

If you don't like capitalism, then give all your money to your parents, and go sit on a mountain top.  Yeah, probably don't have much money, and Texas mountains aren't very tall.

The reason why all these countries suck, including the US, is because of ... humans.  We don't run things either competently nor with compassion (the last two leaders of Venezuela aren't compassionate).
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 03:51:52 PM »
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When capitalism is applied correctly, you get El Salvador, Bangladesh, Honduras, Pakistan, Mexico, Portugal under the Estado Novo, etc. ....

When right-wing ideology is applied correctly, you get Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Fascist Spain, basically every shitty dictatorship and junta in Central and South America, Burma, Kim Il-Sung's North Korea, Iran under the Ayatollah, Saudi Arabia...

I'm sorry, what was your point again? Too far left or too far right is bad, but if you add it up... there have been, and far more, examples of going too far right than there are of going too far left. And to act like Venezuela is solely to blame on left-policy is like blaming the global market crash a few years ago solely on right wing ideology.

Are you ever just... not wrong... about anything?

Certainly an economic model itself doesn't shape how a society will look. So, capitalism can exist in a nation alongside suffering and despair. It happens. The difference, though, is capitalism has produced - at at least existed alongside - prosperity more times than not. Where as marxism produces suffering wherever it is applied - it always has and always will until such time that a nation has reached a tipping point in jobless citizens due to do technology. When there isn't enough openings to earn capital, a nations rulers will have to introduce a form of basic income to quell the masses.

Offline Shiranu

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2017, 04:21:03 PM »
Socialism always produces more suffering... that's why the countries that lean socialist have longer life spans, higher standards of living and are the happiest in the world... and the more capitalist dominant countries are the exact opposite...

Hmmm... seems legitness.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 05:38:45 PM »
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Certainly an economic model itself doesn't shape how a society will look. So, capitalism can exist in a nation alongside suffering and despair. It happens. The difference, though, is capitalism has produced - at at least existed alongside - prosperity more times than not. Where as marxism produces suffering wherever it is applied - it always has and always will until such time that a nation has reached a tipping point in jobless citizens due to do technology. When there isn't enough openings to earn capital, a nations rulers will have to introduce a form of basic income to quell the masses.

Yes and no.  Tyranny exists everywhere.  Without the scientific revolution, which had no business happening in a shit hole like Europe ;-) ... and without the temporary bonanza of cheap hydrocarbons, I am not sure the rise of the merchant class over the other Medieval classes, would have turned out the same.  We still have royalty, nobility, clergy, military, merchants, proletariat, and peasants.  Society has transformed, but not changed, in the last 5000 years.  And yes, there will be a basic sustenance ... it is called Soylent Blue or Soylent Red, depending on which pill you prefer.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 06:57:15 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 05:40:49 PM »
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Socialism always produces more suffering... that's why the countries that lean socialist have longer life spans, higher standards of living and are the happiest in the world... and the more capitalist dominant countries are the exact opposite...

Hmmm... seems legitness.

I agree that it is an overgeneralization, and reflects proletarian/peasant propaganda.  Revolution is only temporary, because existence depends on a large lower class.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Hydra009

Re: Good review of how Socialism/Marxism/Communism ...
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 11:27:29 PM »
I'm going to just leave this here.

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow-men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society." - Albert Einstein

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