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Christopher Hitchens

Started by Mitch BaLou, December 15, 2017, 11:12:38 AM

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Mitch BaLou

Man, Christopher Hitchens was so brilliant!


SGOS

I remember the first time I saw Hitchens on TV.  I remember being unusually impressed.  I can't remember what year it was, but it was late 60s or sometime in the 70s.  I was young at the time.  He just stood out as no talking head had before, someone who was unusually thoughtful.  I knew nothing about his religious beliefs, politics, or philosophy.  But I took notice, never realizing he would become a lasting influence on society.

trdsf

My first encounter with Hitch was through his then-regular column in The Nation in the 1980s and 90s, falling in love with his prose even when I disagreed with the ends to which it was deployed.  I stand by my assessment of his skill as a writer: in the span of one sentence, you could go from wanting to buy him a drink to wanting to punch him in the nose and back to wanting to buy him a drink again, all before reaching the period.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Baruch

Didn't know of him until late in his life.  Definitely worth listening to.  Reminds me of William F Buckley ... every show you would expand your vocabulary.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#4
Two of the best, early Hitchens vs Buckley ... two very articulate guys, for fans of either, from 1984 ... Hitchens enters at 5 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeGKcX-JHNE

another from 1990

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUH4RzAofv8

People forget that young Hitchens was a liberal, and got more conservative as he ages.  Something I am personally aware of in myself.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

I remember William F Buckley Buckley, but for many years, I lived without a TV.  Jr. Buckley is news to me.

Baruch

My political discourse, if not my ideology, grew up on Buckley Jr.  I was neither Catholic (at that time), nor Conservative (at that time).  I am much more religious now.  Notice also, from the first take, that Young Hitchens is the spitting image of our Shirnau ... but old Hitchens (not shown here) was much more like pr126 ... at least in regards to Muslims.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

[quote author=Baruch link=topic=12204.msg1201386#msg1201386 date=1513378230



People forget that young Hitchens was a liberal, and got more conservative as he ages.  Something I am personally aware of in myself.
[/quote]
Interesting.  I find that I did the opposite.  I entered college sort of like a conservative liberal.  I was for the Vietnam War, for example.  And looked down on welfare of any kind--stuff like that.  As I have aged I have become more and more liberal. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

SGOS

Quote from: Mike Cl on December 15, 2017, 08:42:49 PM
Interesting.  I find that I did the opposite.  I entered college sort of like a conservative liberal.  I was for the Vietnam War, for example.  And looked down on welfare of any kind--stuff like that.  As I have aged I have become more and more liberal. 
I've become more liberal too.  I was born to Republicans, so like religion, I identified myself according to what my parents were.  By the time I decided to vote, I started considering the issues, and identified with the Democrats, well, at least with the rhetoric.  I never supported the Vietnam War, although at first I assumed it was a necessary thing, but eventually came to see it as a grave mistake and a pointless loss of life and money.  Since my identification with the Democratic party, I've moved somewhat to the left of the party leadership, but most Democrats I know seem much to the left of the party leadership, partly because the party seems to have abandoned the base and become more willing to cater to the needs of the wealthy where the big money and power is.

Mike Cl

Much like you, through HS and into college, I pretty much reflected my parents views on most things.  They voted Demo, but had more conservative views that the typical demo.  I remember my dad did support the war in Nam and supported Reagan when he fired all the striking air traffic controllers.  Part of it was he was an ammo inspector for the Dept. of Army.  When I left home for college and then the Army, I started looking at the issues with my own eyes.  Irony abounds--while in the Army I came to realize what a total cluster-fuck Nam was and was totally against it.  My dad, as an Ammo inspector, had to do a year in Nam--when he came back, he was not for the war, but did not want to talk about it much.  His conservative side started to erode.  By the end of his life, he and I were pretty much on the same page.  And even now, I find I am much more liberal or progressive than I was last year or the year before. 

I am so progressive that I think the guaranteed income  would be wildly successful.  :great:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on December 15, 2017, 08:42:49 PM
[quote author=Baruch link=topic=12204.msg1201386#msg1201386 date=1513378230



People forget that young Hitchens was a liberal, and got more conservative as he ages.  Something I am personally aware of in myself.

Interesting.  I find that I did the opposite.  I entered college sort of like a conservative liberal.  I was for the Vietnam War, for example.  And looked down on welfare of any kind--stuff like that.  As I have aged I have become more and more liberal.

That is because you still sleep in gravity boots ;-)

I wasn't ever liberal or conservative.  Pragmatic not ideological.  But socially, I didn't see any downside to progressivism as it existed in 1975 (hence registered Democrat).  Subsequently I can see the problem with anything, is letting humans be involved with it.

Hitchens is like Wittgenstein (philosopher) ... the early version and the later version, which makes consistency across time, impossible.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2017, 11:05:30 AM
That is because you still sleep in gravity boots ;-)

I wasn't ever liberal or conservative.  Pragmatic not ideological.  But socially, I didn't see any downside to progressivism as it existed in 1975 (hence registered Democrat).  Subsequently I can see the problem with anything, is letting humans be involved with it.

Hitchens is like Wittgenstein (philosopher) ... the early version and the later version, which makes consistency across time, impossible.
Lost me in all of that--except, gravity boots.  How'd you know that????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

#12
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 16, 2017, 12:38:24 PM
Lost me in all of that--except, gravity boots.  How'd you know that????

People of our generation, who think upside-down ... would know that ;-)

Comparison to Wittgenstein is apt on several levels ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ33gAyhg2c&index=1&list=PLrMnZObCE6iwAXXi0-IkiWBLVVxSRdeWy

I agree with early Wittgenstein.  And pictures in your head don't mean much, if they are not empirical.  So I take early Wittgenstein with a pinch of empirical salt.  Also many people will be concerned if the picture also seems to be somehow irrational.

The later Wittgenstein matches the methods (if not the intent) of Hitler.  Language as a game (of manipulation).  Hitler and Wittgenstein went to the same Austrian grammar school, at nearly the same time.  And Wittgenstein was Jewish .. Hitler may have realized this at a young age.  Wittgenstein's father was one of the richest men in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  He wanted this son to be more "ordinary" ... have a human touch.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

GSOgymrat

I confess I haven't read any of Hitchens' books.

My political beliefs haven't changed much over the years. What wavers is whether taking political action is a waste of my time.

Hydra009

Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 16, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
I confess I haven't read any of Hitchens' books.

My political beliefs haven't changed much over the years. What wavers is whether taking political action is a waste of my time.
Taking action is never a waste of time.  Trying to convince shills and crazy people to do the right thing may or may not be.