Author Topic: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban  (Read 1511 times)

Online Shiranu

Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« on: December 04, 2017, 06:37:45 PM »








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The US Supreme Court on Monday allowed the newest version of President Donald Trump's travel ban to take effect pending appeal.
This is the first time justices have allowed any edition of the ban to go forward in its entirety. It signals that some of the justices might be distinguishing the latest version from previous iterations and could be more likely, in the future, to rule in favor of the ban.
Issued in September, the third edition of the travel ban placed varying levels of restrictions on foreign nationals from eight countries: Chad, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Syria, Venezuela, Somalia and Yemen.
Yes, several of those countries are not Muslim; I recommend watching the video embedded in the link that explains there is almost zero immigration from Chad & Venezuela, and only diplomats really travel from North Korea to the U.S. anyways, making it a way to undercut the idea of it being a "Muslim" ban.
In reality, 99.99% of the people it effects are Muslim, but this is a way to undercut that narrative and make it seem more benign and, well, less bigoted, then it actually is.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 10:21:48 PM »
Would be easy to be fair.  Ban all travel to the US by non-US citizens, particularly UN and embassy personnel ;-)  When the EMP goes off, there will be no way to process the visas anyway ;-(
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2017, 04:17:47 AM »
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Yes, several of those countries are not Muslim; I recommend watching the video embedded in the link that explains there is almost zero immigration from Chad & Venezuela, and only diplomats really travel from North Korea to the U.S. anyways, making it a way to undercut the idea of it being a "Muslim" ban.
In reality, 99.99% of the people it effects are Muslim, but this is a way to undercut that narrative and make it seem more benign and, well, less bigoted, then it actually is.

Banning all Moslems in order to prevent terrorists is too blunt a tool.  And Moslem terrorists are not our biggest problem.  South and Central American gangs are.  Shall we (can we) ban all of them too.  As Christians?  That would be the same as banning all Moslems.

There are Asian gangs in the US and members joining them.  Shall we ban all Asians?

We have to selectively identify bad individuals, not whole groups.  Or we become an isolated country that also loses the benefits of good people who come here.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 05:24:18 AM »
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Banning all Moslems in order to prevent terrorists is too blunt a tool.  And Moslem terrorists are not our biggest problem.  South and Central American gangs are.  Shall we (can we) ban all of them too.  As Christians?  That would be the same as banning all Moslems.

There are Asian gangs in the US and members joining them.  Shall we ban all Asians?

We have to selectively identify bad individuals, not whole groups.  Or we become an isolated country that also loses the benefits of good people who come here.

I happen to agree, if that was what the government is trying to do.  They are banning travelers from countries that don't adhere to good enough vetting of passengers.  So all passengers, regardless of religion, are banned from those countries.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 05:57:15 AM »
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I happen to agree, if that was what the government is trying to do.  They are banning travelers from countries that don't adhere to good enough vetting of passengers.  So all passengers, regardless of religion, are banned from those countries.

Nice try, but there are many counties with equally poor vetting that aren't banned.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2017, 09:50:19 AM »
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Nice try, but there are many counties with equally poor vetting that aren't banned.

So propose more countries to ban.  You are making a conspiracy theory about Islamophobia.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 05:13:52 AM »
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So propose more countries to ban.  You are making a conspiracy theory about Islamophobia.

Are you dense or what?  I specifically said not moslem countries.  You are just a troll.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 06:14:56 AM »
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Are you dense or what?  I specifically said not moslem countries.  You are just a troll.

It is American to criticize government policy.  I am sure you did that with your supervisors when you worked for the government ;-)  You chimed in implying ... Rs are Islamaphobes ... in a context where the meme is ... Ds are for Muslims.  My misunderstanding.

So are you or are you not, in favor of vetting foreign ports of entry or not?
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Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 01:41:00 PM »
Quote
The US Supreme Court on Monday allowed the newest version of President Donald Trump's travel ban to take effect pending appeal.

I wasn't aware that any appeal was possible after a SCOTUS decision. So what appeal is the article talking about?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2018, 01:48:00 PM »
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I wasn't aware that any appeal was possible after a SCOTUS decision. So what appeal is the article talking about?

Please leave the poster's name in the quote.  I can't find who said such nonsense.  And it is of course.  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2018, 01:51:23 PM »
It's a quote from the article that was posted in the OP.
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"Religion – it’s given people hope in a world torn apart by religion."
Jon Stewart
"Jesus was a Jew, yes, but only on his mother’s side."
Archie Bunker

Offline Cavebear

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2018, 01:53:40 PM »
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It is American to criticize government policy.  I am sure you did that with your supervisors when you worked for the government ;-)  You chimed in implying ... Rs are Islamaphobes ... in a context where the meme is ... Ds are for Muslims.  My misunderstanding.

So are you or are you not, in favor of vetting foreign ports of entry or not?

You weren't criticizing govt policy; you were disagreeing with me. 

And vetting foreign ports is an entirely different question.  We don't have that sovereign right.  We can only vet ships coming into ours.  Not that we can't do some security spying, of course...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2018, 01:58:57 PM »
"The US Supreme Court on Monday allowed the newest version of President Donald Trump's travel ban to take effect pending appeal." ... first sentence of the original article.  The SCOTUS hasn't made a final determination, until they choose to.  It depends on how many times and for what reasons the lower court issues a stay, against how many times the order is rewritten to match up with what appears to be legal.  Must be nice being a judge.

Originally there was the "order" .. then a lower court issued a stay.  then the "order" was revised one or more times .. then a lower court issued another stay.  Which means that the law, as written at that point in time, is unenforcible.  Once the lower courts get done with dodge ball, then it may be appealed to the SCOTUS ... who can order that the lower court judgement be sent back to the lower court for further review (in effect lifting the lower court stay).  SCOTUS hasn't yet decided, if there are some conditions under which some stay would be legit, against whatever the current version of the order says.

And the ultimate appeal against SCOTUS is a new law written by Congress.  Congress could choose to overturn Citizen's United for example.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2018, 02:02:29 PM »
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And the ultimate appeal against SCOTUS is a new law written by Congress.  Congress could choose to overturn Citizen's United for example.

That's not "an appeal"...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Muslim (Er, "Travel") Ban
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2018, 02:02:48 PM »
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You weren't criticizing govt policy; you were disagreeing with me. 

And vetting foreign ports is an entirely different question.  We don't have that sovereign right.  We can only vet ships coming into ours.  Not that we can't do some security spying, of course...

By ports I meant ports of entry, which includes airports.  Your point is now clear ... US law is unenforcible outside the US.  I would tend to agree.  In that case cancel all non-military travel to or from the US.  Foreigners can't be allowed into the US, and all foreigners currently here need to be deported.  Not because I am anti-travel or anti-foreigner ... I am not.  But since we can't trust any other country to do a proper visa job, we can only trust US officials ... just ban entry entirely.  After all, US foreign policy is to treat everyone, both foreign and domestic, as enemies of the State.
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