Author Topic: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade  (Read 328 times)

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2017, 01:14:36 AM »
Elucidate. Go on.

You answered your own question; the Libyan media is using Donald Trump's own words, words that are inherently problematic, regressive and destructive by delegitimatizing actual journalists who have legal standards and ethics to uphold to defend slave auctioning in their borders. That is by it's very nature linking Donald Trump to the defense of the slave trade; you cant say something, then when those words have real world consequences, claim to have no responsibility for what you said.

Since you bring up rape; if I am the second most powerful person in the world, who constantly shouts and screams that so-and-so is a rapist, and people begin to believe he is a rapist... I do have some burden of responsibility for turning people on to the thought that he is a rapist, particularly if he is completely innocent and all the "evidence" I cited was completely false. As the president of the United States, he has legitimate power with his words, just as any other head of state or social leader does.

This is what I am saying; not that he is responsible for the slave trade, not that he is personally defending it... but that his consistent and deceitful attack of the press has real world consequences and that is not something you can just brush aside as, "Meh, they are just words!".
Om Mani Padme Hum

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2017, 01:29:05 AM »
You answered your own question; the Libyan media is using Donald Trump's own words, words that are inherently problematic, regressive and destructive by delegitimatizing actual journalists who have legal standards and ethics to uphold to defend slave auctioning in their borders. That is by it's very nature linking Donald Trump to the defense of the slave trade; you cant say something, then when those words have real world consequences, claim to have no responsibility for what you said.
No, it does not. Saying someone (shitty journalists) is a peddler of bullshit does not then make ones own opinion the contrary of whatever that shitty journalist has ever said ever. That is non-logic.

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This is what I am saying; not that he is responsible for the slave trade, not that he is personally defending it... but that his consistent and deceitful attack of the press has real world consequences and that is not something you can just brush aside as, "Meh, they are just words!".

Actually that is exactly what you are saying - that he is defending it. When you go on to explain what you are actually saying, you drive off onto an irrelevant tangent that doesn't address that mistake you are trying to correct. You do this so you don't actually have to come up with what it is you want us to think you are actually saying. This is called equivocation. You are equivocating because your logic has been shown to be faulty, and you cannot create any new reasoning to defend the position, but you still want to hold it.

If a publication lies, and I call the publication bullshit, am I then mounting a defense for everything that publication has ever attacked? Of course not; that is faulty reasoning. Yet you hold this position, only about Donald. And to mask the obviously faulty logic, you equivocate - When you rattle on about consequences and the ethics of journalism, you are doing so to draw attention away from what would otherwise be obviously faulty reasoning. You are expanding, with irrelevancies, on what is actually a very simple - yet wrongheaded, obviously - concept. Equivocation.

Equivocation is the tool of a snake.

So, I will tell you what you so often tell others; just admit when you're wrong.

Offline pr126

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2017, 01:30:42 AM »
@ Shiranu


As a true believer, you have to defend your Faith .
After all, the indoctrination did cost you a lot of money.

“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2017, 01:50:26 AM »
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No, it does not. Saying someone (shitty journalists) is a peddler of bullshit does not then make ones own opinion the contrary of whatever that shitty journalist has ever said ever. That is non-logic.

Perhaps. But that is only applicable when the journalist in question is, infact, shitty. That is not to say CNN aren't... they have had their fair share of fuck ups. But when you constantly attack them when they report legitimate news that you don't like, while holding a position of extreme power... well, then it is irrelevant if the news is true or isn't, isn't it?

Trump does not attack shitty journalists, he attacks journalists who don't agree with him... right or wrong. If I lived in Colombia, Cuba, Russia, Iraq... this would be perfectly "acceptable" and expected behaviour. I don't, so it isn't.

Nor did I say that Trump's opinion is contrary to CNN's; in truth, I don't think Trump has an opinion on much of anything. He just does what he feels is in his best interest at any given time like a knee jerks to a mallet. If Trump was accusing CNN of legitimate bull shittery, then I would completely agree that he has no responsibility for people misconstruing his words... but what the Libyan media is doing is the exact same thing he does... calling people liars because they expose things he, and they, don't like to be exposed. This is why it isn't just "his words being twisted"... it is "twisting" his words in the exact same manner he does, for the exact same self-serving ends, to defend slave auctioning within the Libyan border. His words and actions have simply lead to this point; that is an undeniable reality, without denying reality.

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Actually that is exactly what you are saying - that he is defending it.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying; that he is defending it. But I have never denied he is. Notice the word "personally" placed infront of defending it where you quoted? That means he is not actively engaged in the defense of it, but his actions are defending it. A better word would have been "intentionally", but too little, to late I suppose.

You are mistaking my position for thinking he is willingly, actively engaged in the defense of the slave trade; that is not my position. So when you "refute" that... it is irrelevant, because that is not a position I hold.

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So, I will tell you what you so often tell others; just admit when you're wrong.

As soon as you admit you struck out, along with the rest of you bullpen, and didn't actually understand my position and tried to force something I didn't say onto me time, and time, and time again... and every time I said that wasn't my position, and explained my position, you repeat the same argument that I'm not refuting "your" argument that "I am making".

By all means, when you actually refute my argument, I will admit I am wrong. But as it stands, all three of you have committed a logical fallacy know as a straw man, which is where an argument is presented, in this case at least relevant to what I said but distorted and inaccurate, and then "defeated" and held as "proof" that my argument was defeated. Of course, my actual argument (that Donald Trump is defending the slave trade through his rhetoric) was never actually refuted, but if it was then it wouldn't have been a straw man argument. You three continue to due this, with various degrees of ridiculousness (I'll say that you were probably the only geuinely inncocent one, since I should have used "intentionally" instead of "personally" to be more clear about my position). Straw man.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 01:52:22 AM by Shiranu »
Om Mani Padme Hum

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2017, 01:53:23 AM »
@ Shiranu


As a true believer, you have to defend your Faith .
After all, the indoctrination did cost you a lot of money.



Oh do please try a little bit harder, child. From your own link...

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Second — in common usage in the wild — "Cultural Marxism" is a snarl word used to paint anyone with progressive tendencies as a secret Communist. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers have infiltrated media, academia, and science and are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture. Some variants of the conspiracy alleges that basically all of modern social liberalism is, in fact, a Communist front group.

Do you need me to make you a new tin foil hat, dear?


Edit: Oh fuck me sideways, you literally just called yourself a rabid proprietor of Nazi propaganda and anti-Semitism. I never took you for a Nazi or anti-Semite... is there something you want to tell us, pr?


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he conspiracist usage originated in Nazi Germany, where Kulturbolschewismus ("Cultural Bolshevism") was used to abuse political opponents. In particular, Jews purportedly were secretly orchestrating the spread of Communism (Jewish Bolshevism) as well as promoting sexual & gender permissiveness ("sexual Bolshevism").[5]

If anyone rants about "Cultural Marxists taking over culture!", feel free to remind them that they're literally spouting Nazi propaganda updated for the modern era.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 01:56:40 AM by Shiranu »
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline pr126

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2017, 02:00:21 AM »
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Oh do please try a little bit harder, child.

QED.
Ad hominem again. You cannot live without it.

“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2017, 02:03:38 AM »
QED.
Ad hominem again. You cannot live without it.



Crying about someone attacking one's character... after you attack their character... hmm, what do you call that...


Oh, right. Hypocritical af. Lmao homboi, get yo shit together.

You know, someone who posts a link to prove himself correct and inadvertently links to a definition that points out his catch-phrase is just a reworded Nazi propaganda rooted in anti-Semitism for the modern age, probably shouldn't be too worried about people ad homin' all up in his business. I think you flagellating yourself far harder than I could ever dream of doing.

The best part is I tell you you are just digging your own hole... and you say, "Fuck it, hold my beer!" and just really out do yourself every time. That is truly impressive. Moronic? Certainly. But impressive non-the-less.


And commercials are over. See you in 20 or so!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 02:06:51 AM by Shiranu »
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline pr126

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2017, 02:10:54 AM »
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Crying about someone attacking one's character... after you attack their character... hmm, what do you call that...
Please demonstrate when and how I attacked your or anyone's character.

“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2017, 02:18:04 AM »
To humour you, or not to humour you... ah fuck it, one last bone before I get off. I will only quote from this page to spare you some humiliation.

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As a true believer, you have to defend your Faith .

Implication that I am a fanatic, and have not reached my positions through (mostly) reason and adherence to my morality but rather through mindless hive think. An implication that I am too stupid to think for myself, and am akin to a fundamentalist of any religion. Perhaps not an overly grievous insult in itself, but on an atheist forum... well, I think you know that insult carries a little bit more weight to it than it would else where, don't you?

Also an implication that anyone who holds a different ideology than you is an indoctrinated fool, who have not reached their positions through reason and adherence to their morality but rather through mindless hive think. Again, on a forum of atheists and "rational" men, a pretty heavy handed insult.

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“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Same as above; the insult that I am exposed to knowledge but refusing to acquire it; i.e. , I am either an idiot or a mindless drone. While I may be an idiot, I have never claimed otherwise, that does not make it any less an insult.

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You have some serious inferiority complex.

Yet again, the fact that I disagree with you is a fault of my character rather than any actual ideological difference we may or may not have.

I am more than happy to be blunt with you; I do attack your character, or rather your persona's character, because it is a persona of a complete limp cocked asshole who probably pisses itself when it sees it's shadow.

Now, lets cut the shit and not act like you have a moral high ground on me and don't judge me for "my character", shall we, when we both know that is complete horse shit.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 02:23:42 AM by Shiranu »
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline pr126

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2017, 06:16:32 AM »
Your ideology has become your identity.
Disagreeing with your politics is now an insult to yourself.

Just like the religious person regards the criticism of his religion a personal insult.
A good opportunity to claim victim hood, you are being oppressed.

Welcome to the New World Order where only two classes exist. Oppressors or oppressed.

Have a nice day.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 06:57:41 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Baruch

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2017, 08:56:01 AM »
Shiranu is a young idealist.  As young adults should be.  Give him another 40 years, and he might be more like you, pr126 ;-)

Earlier in this string, Shiranu admits to being anti-pr126, like in this Star Trek episode ...



They must not meet, face to face ... the destruction of the universe might result!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:11:43 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2017, 09:00:46 AM »
Shiranu, you are actually crazy.

Donald Trump saying CNN is fake news, and then Libya media going "Yeah I agree - none of the shit CNN said about us was true" does not correlate Donald or his rhetoric in any way with Libya's slave-trade. There is no logical connection there.

Let's say there's a rapist, and then a guy incorrectly accuses the rapist of also being a thief. If I correctly point out that the rapist is not a thief; I am not defending  the rapists rapings in doing so.

You are on too many levels of lefty propaganda. I recommend having your cable shut off.

Usually we blame the prior administration, for stuff that happens during the current administration (maybe only partly fair).  Now we are blaming the current administration, for stuff that happened during the prior administration?  Republicans have time travel, and Dr Who forced Obama to run things that way 2009-2017?  I saw an episode where Dr Who visited President Nixon ... so it must be real.



More great US-British cooperation.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:14:34 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2017, 09:03:02 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

If genocide .. then no immigrants ;-(  I happen to agree, it would have been wise to stay out of the ME since 1991.

Also, being rich as Europeans, means, that all 3rd worlders deserve to move there for the free goodies and free women ... otherwise life isn't fair ;-))

https://ourworldindata.org/global-economic-inequality

Actual data, not rhetoric.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 04:55:57 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Online Cavebear

Re: Trump, Twitter and the Libyan Slave Trade
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2017, 04:20:21 AM »
And that is the real problem; preferring to let others explain the meaning.

I suspect that, if you actually understood what President Trump meant in most of his speeches, I would not have to worry about the people like you who support him...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950