Author Topic: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear  (Read 105 times)

Offline Baruch (OP)

Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« on: December 24, 2017, 11:25:51 AM »
Basically, people are in need to center themselves on the here and now.  But therapeutically, there are two alternatives, to focus on an imagined future, or an imagined past ... so that one can return to the here and now, in a renewed way.

Metaphorically, I am like Samurai Jack, I seek to undo the evil modernity of Aku, by returning to the past:



Once upon a time, I had a WW II katana and a pre-modern tanto.  Of course Japan and samurai are always, interesting, particularly ronin.

Here is a brief intro on Judeo-Arabic literature:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/judeo-arabic-literature

The religious thought of Medieval Iberia is of great interest to me.  In particular, Bahya Ibn Pakuda.  As a window into the past (psychologically).  I am studying his major work, both in translation, and a scholarly analysis ... to compare with my own ideas of a pre-modern POV.  Medieval Iberia is a great period of history, where Christianity, Judaism and Islam came into close contact.  While I am not Sephardic, I am part Iberian and Ashkenazi.  Charlton Heston played Moses, Ben Hur and El Cid.  Movies from my childhood:



I am a warrior like King David, like El Cid, or like the Emir of Córdoba, Abd al-Rahman I.

Others may prefer the many faces of The Doctor:

.. but then, Dr Who doesn't just deal with future events.

King David and El Cid, historically are just condottiere ... as was Abd al-Rahman ... the sole surviving Umayyad prince.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/La_civilització_del_califat_de_Còrdova_en_temps_d%27Abd-al-Rahman_III.jpg

Yeah, those Muslims, just savages aren't they?  Well maybe at first ...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 09:02:26 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 12:05:16 PM »
The video game version of the El Cid legend ...



Notice the similarity between this and the relationship between King Saul and David.

Notice also that Catalonia complicated things, then and now.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 06:39:01 AM »
I am stunned.

You are insane.

I could write pages to support the idea, but your posts here are sufficient. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 09:04:14 AM »
I am stunned.

You are insane.

I could write pages to support the idea, but your posts here are sufficient.

Sorry, if you weren't serious when you asked me your question.  I have many interests, this is just one.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 10:50:38 AM »
Sorry, if you weren't serious when you asked me your question.  I have many interests, this is just one.

It wasn't quite what I expected...  I was thinking something more factual.  Let me review what you sent more carefully. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 01:58:34 PM »
It wasn't quite what I expected...  I was thinking something more factual.  Let me review what you sent more carefully.

There are classicist and romantic POV.  You are clearly the first (see neoclassical art) and I am clearly the second (see romantic art).  The link on Judeo-Arabic literature is straight stuff.

I specialize in not being .... expected.  If I were Don Juan (see Hispanic legends) I would think that being unexpected is a good thing, unless I like having lots of sword fights with male relatives protecting their virgin daughters).  Also knowing which not-high window to jump out of, if caught in flagrante delicto.

Specifically, as a comment on the literature ... Jews and Muslims lived in Spain for over 400 years, and mostly got along better than either did with the Christian conquistadors.  Both were influenced by early Medieval theology and philosophy coming from Cairo and Baghdad.  Initially neo-platonism was more influential, later neo-aristotelianism was.  By translation of Arabic translations of originally Greek works, in Spain, into Latin, higher education seeped back into barbaric Europe.  Earlier, elementary education (including literacy) had been preserved initially in Ireland, and fanned out from there as the Vikings settled down.  Eventually, neo-aristotelianism died out in Islam, but triumphed in Judaism and Christianity in the West.  The Jewish and Christian East tended to stay with neo-platonism, but wasn't as academically fruitful, any more than Islam was.  Of course the real game changer was printing, which was slow to take off in Eastern Europe or in Islamic lands.

That isn't to say, that I agree with medieval theology or philosophy ... I have my own ideas, and I am using a particular writing of a particular time and place, for my own purposes.

The transition from Classical to Romantic, in the imagination of Mozart ...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 02:01:52 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 02:09:57 PM »
There are classicist and romantic POV.  You are clearly the first (see neoclassical art) and I am clearly the second (see romantic art).  The link on Judeo-Arabic literature is straight stuff.

I specialize in not being .... expected.  If I were Don Juan (see Hispanic legends) I would think that being unexpected is a good thing, unless I like having lots of sword fights with male relatives protecting their virgin daughters).  Also knowing which not-high window to jump out of, if caught in flagrante delicto.

Specifically, as a comment on the literature ... Jews and Muslims lived in Spain for over 400 years, and mostly got along better than either did with the Christian conquistadors.  Both were influenced by early Medieval theology and philosophy coming from Cairo and Baghdad.  Initially neo-platonism was more influential, later neo-aristotelianism was.  By translation of Arabic translations of originally Greek works, in Spain, into Latin, higher education seeped back into barbaric Europe.  Earlier, elementary education (including literacy) had been preserved initially in Ireland, and fanned out from there as the Vikings settled down.  Eventually, neo-aristotelianism died out in Islam, but triumphed in Judaism and Christianity in the West.  The Jewish and Christian East tended to stay with neo-platonism, but wasn't as academically fruitful, any more than Islam was.  Of course the real game changer was printing, which was slow to take off in Eastern Europe or in Islamic lands.

That isn't to say, that I agree with medieval theology or philosophy ... I have my own ideas, and I am using a particular writing of a particular time and place, for my own purposes.

The transition from Classical to Romantic, in the imagination of Mozart ...


My concern here is that you want to "teach" me about some things I already know too well (middle eastern kingdoms), some things I do not care about  (like religious debates a la Nicea), or the general good cultural advances of the mid east (like getting geometry from the Greeks and the concept of 0 from India.

So what are you proposing to offer? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Judeo-Arabic studies ... for Cavebear
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2017, 02:23:17 PM »
None of that.  I know your interests.  Just what I have presented so far, only as far as you want to look.
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