Author Topic: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?  (Read 3171 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2017, 05:45:23 AM »
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All religions, including Islam, are in denial about that.  They simply can't admit fallacy nor borrowing.  Voltaire said something nasty about that.

Voltaire nasty?  What a shock!  Shocked I tell you, shocked.

Speaking of not admitting fallacies, how are you on that?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2017, 10:01:40 AM »
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Voltaire nasty?  What a shock!  Shocked I tell you, shocked.

Speaking of not admitting fallacies, how are you on that?

Rhetoric is a manly art, no holds barred.  Like kick boxing, not like checkers.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2017, 10:54:23 AM »
Lying isn't acceptable unless you are in politics, where lying is rewarded.

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β€œYou are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema ChΓΆdrΓΆn

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 06:25:48 PM »
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Very few Hindus are atheist.
Maybe that's because they have so many more Gods (millions?) to disbelieve in than we Christian atheists...
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"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

Offline Baruch

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2017, 09:23:26 PM »
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Maybe that's because they have so many more Gods (millions?) to disbelieve in than we Christian atheists...

Well, former Christians are spoiled by the simplicity of their former religion.  Hinduism is a modern version of the paganism from which Christianity sprang.  Constantine For Dummies.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2017, 09:40:26 PM »
It has nothing to do with being atheist or theist.

It is you value as a person, and your personal integrity.

Of course the theists have the escape clause of praying for forgiveness, absolving them of any further responsibility or guilt.  The atheist just has to suck it up and live with it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 09:45:47 PM by Feral Atheist »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2017, 01:32:25 AM »
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It has nothing to do with being atheist or theist.

It is you value as a person, and your personal integrity.

Of course the theists have the escape clause of praying for forgiveness, absolving them of any further responsibility or guilt.  The atheist just has to suck it up and live with it.

Actually, I think theists and atheists are further apart that you realize.  Theists believe in the not real even here on Earth.  Atheists don't.  I won't give theists even that slight "escape clause" you mention.  They are just "dead wrong" (literally) and waste their only existence hoping for a new longer one. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2017, 02:13:32 AM »
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Actually, I think theists and atheists are further apart that you realize.  Theists believe in the not real even here on Earth.  Atheists don't.  I won't give theists even that slight "escape clause" you mention.  They are just "dead wrong" (literally) and waste their only existence hoping for a new longer one.

I think Feral Atheist is saying that Christians think they can just pray for forgiveness, and that is the end of it. In contrast, we atheists have to actually do something to right our wrongs to find forgiveness. Christians use God's forgiveness as a get out of jail free card, sometimes quite literally.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Cavebear

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 02:19:56 AM »
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I think Feral Atheist is saying that Christians think they can just pray for forgiveness, and that is the end of it. In contrast, we atheists have to actually do something to right our wrongs to find forgiveness. Christians use God's forgiveness as a get out of jail free card, sometimes quite literally.

Yeah, that's got it about right.  I think if theists lived life on Earth with the intensity they give to getting to heaven, we would all be much better off.  But they can't.

I think most atheists really don't understand how dedicated most serious theists are about the afterlife.  Nothing here matters to them except getting to heaven.  And escaping hell...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2017, 05:29:25 AM »
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I think Feral Atheist is saying that Christians think they can just pray for forgiveness, and that is the end of it. In contrast, we atheists have to actually do something to right our wrongs to find forgiveness. Christians use God's forgiveness as a get out of jail free card, sometimes quite literally.

That is called cheap grace.  Most Christians do that, because they aren't good Christians (most people are bad at being people, but are trying to be better at it).  It is clearly spelled out in the Epistle of James ... you have to have works and faith, not just faith, not just works.  That last bit is what you could legitimately disagree with.  I would too .. I don't think people are punished enough, or rewarded enough ... but that is my emotional problem, regarding "future" events.  On the other hand, I think many former Christians are strong on the "not punished enough" part ... and that is their failing, not G-d's.  If you think people should be punished, then just do it ... and expect blow back.  On the other hand, if you do think people aren't rewarded enough ... then do that for sure.  Just check your own sense of who merits ... at the door.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2017, 06:12:31 AM »
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That is called cheap grace.  Most Christians do that, because they aren't good Christians (most people are bad at being people, but are trying to be better at it).  It is clearly spelled out in the Epistle of James ... you have to have works and faith, not just faith, not just works.  That last bit is what you could legitimately disagree with.  I would too .. I don't think people are punished enough, or rewarded enough ... but that is my emotional problem, regarding "future" events.  On the other hand, I think many former Christians are strong on the "not punished enough" part ... and that is their failing, not G-d's.  If you think people should be punished, then just do it ... and expect blow back.  On the other hand, if you do think people aren't rewarded enough ... then do that for sure.  Just check your own sense of who merits ... at the door.

The theists (and I'll specify Christians especially for once) tend to fail in the real world.  It's BECAUSE they don't think the real world is "real", just a trial for a world to come later.

And that's why they are such a harm to our real world.  They think it doesn't really matter. 

I consider that sick, anti-human, and imaginary.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2017, 07:02:44 AM »
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The theists (and I'll specify Christians especially for once) tend to fail in the real world.  It's BECAUSE they don't think the real world is "real", just a trial for a world to come later.

And that's why they are such a harm to our real world.  They think it doesn't really matter. 

I consider that sick, anti-human, and imaginary.

I agree for Christians who fall for that.  Not all do, but many do ...

But since the so called world is a construct of the Matrix, just how real do you think reality is?  Was Walter Cronkite wrong to loose faith in LBJ in 1968?  LBJ was sick, anti-human and his reasons for being in Vietnam were imaginary.  But I don't think of him as being particularly religious, just evil.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2017, 07:18:32 AM »
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I agree for Christians who fall for that.  Not all do, but many do ...

But since the so called world is a construct of the Matrix, just how real do you think reality is?  Was Walter Cronkite wrong to loose faith in LBJ in 1968?  LBJ was sick, anti-human and his reasons for being in Vietnam were imaginary.  But I don't think of him as being particularly religious, just evil.

There you go again, sensible for a sentence or two and then laughably dumb after that when your real thoughts kick in...

The real world is not "The Matrix", reality exists, and life is not "a la Truman Show" or any other odd imagining you have...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2017, 10:54:19 PM »
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There you go again, sensible for a sentence or two and then laughably dumb after that when your real thoughts kick in...

The real world is not "The Matrix", reality exists, and life is not "a la Truman Show" or any other odd imagining you have...

Your interpretation of sensation is individual and tribal.  Reality isn't what you think it is ... we actually don't know what it is, because we can't get past autonomic or even conscious prejudice.  This applies in spades to politics.  That is a Truman Show ... haven't you noticed that for the last 24 months?
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: When is it okay for an atheist to tell a lie?
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2017, 05:35:22 PM »
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The atheist just has to suck it up and live with it.
The atheist is much like a fly in that respect...
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"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

 

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