Author Topic: Europe is killing itself  (Read 298 times)

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 07:58:22 AM »
For genocides I'd put the tobacco industry in the top ten.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 01:13:32 PM »
Belgium and the Congo, Russia and the Russians also were some A+, over-achieving genocides.

Then why do 3rd world nations still exist?  Why aren't they just reservations inside Mega Britain, Mega Belgium?  Russia is Mega already .. can't count them.

It is hard to commit genocide, if you value slave labor too highly.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 01:14:29 PM »
For genocides I'd put the tobacco industry in the top ten.

America's original killing fields.  In the Caribbean .. it was sugar cane/rum.
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Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 12:56:47 AM »
If Europe kills itself we can dust off the swords of manifest destiny and once more expand the American Empire. Of course the ships we built for American exceptionalism are still around to carry us to our French and English colonies ;-)
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 01:46:26 AM »
How exactly would you have kept us (Europe) together, I wonder?

I don't mean to be hostile about this, but I really don't see what the US could have deliberately done or could now deliberatly do, to keep the European Union afloat. I'm not saying Europe and the US are two islands; seperated and not influencing one another. But not everything in the world is in control of the US.
I know this might be a dumb analogy, but I feel like it would be if I said we Europeans failed our American allies by letting them ellect Trump as a president. We could have helped them make a better choice, and it wouldn't have taken much effort.

Not everything is in the control of the US.  But the US could have spoken up more in support on the European Union, put some incentives out for England to stay there, and supported a more unified Europe. 

Brexit caught us at a bad time. 

I think the Unification of Europe and the continued alliance of Europe and the US was a good thing and England leaving it is a diminishment of that.  Which will slowly lead to a gain for autocracies elsewhere in the world.

Trumpism will make things only worse.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126 (OP)

“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Baruch

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 02:12:26 AM »
Not everything is in the control of the US.  But the US could have spoken up more in support on the European Union, put some incentives out for England to stay there, and supported a more unified Europe. 

Brexit caught us at a bad time. 

I think the Unification of Europe and the continued alliance of Europe and the US was a good thing and England leaving it is a diminishment of that.  Which will slowly lead to a gain for autocracies elsewhere in the world.

Trumpism will make things only worse.

You probably still support the League of Nations too ;-)  We don't need kings and popes.  Screw Europe (said by a recent American diplomat).
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Offline Baruch

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 02:14:04 AM »
PESCO and a Brief Look at the Machinations of the EU Neo-Fascist State

(Image removed from quote.)

But ... but ... y'all like unelected monarchy, un-representative EU commission (European parliament is the Central Committee rubber stamp).  And only cardinals get to vote for the Pope.  Y'all are just serfs.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 02:19:56 AM »
But ... but ... y'all like unelected monarchy, un-representative EU commission (European parliament is the Central Committee rubber stamp).  And only cardinals get to vote for the Pope.  Y'all are just serfs.

I previously stated that I was not fond of monarchies, and that I was in general favor of international cooperatism in matters of trade disputes and intellectual property ownership.  China has to be forced into international legalism.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 02:22:40 AM »
I previously stated that I was not fond of monarchies, and that I was in general favor of international cooperatism in matters of trade disputes and intellectual property ownership.  China has to be forced into international legalism.

Enjoy your stale rice bowl, while bicycling to your party meeting wearing a Mao jacket.  Good stuff if for China now, and we need the Great Leap Forward of the SJW.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 02:33:19 AM »
Enjoy your stale rice bowl, while bicycling to your party meeting wearing a Mao jacket.  Good stuff if for China now, and we need the Great Leap Forward of the SJW.

I am not Maoist and you know it.  I liked you better a few days ago when you were just a crazed alt-rightist and honest about it...  As to riding a bicycle...

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 03:42:10 AM »
Not everything is in the control of the US.  But the US could have spoken up more in support on the European Union, put some incentives out for England to stay there, and supported a more unified Europe. 

Brexit caught us at a bad time. 

I think the Unification of Europe and the continued alliance of Europe and the US was a good thing and England leaving it is a diminishment of that.  Which will slowly lead to a gain for autocracies elsewhere in the world.

Trumpism will make things only worse.

The UK had plenty of incentives to stay though. Offered by the European Union. The US jumping in there and offering to pitch in, while a good idea at heart, would cause an unfair an prefereable treatment of one nation, GB, versus the rest. Or would you also give incentives the moment France or Germany or Portugal decide to call it quits? You'd be opening a can of worms there.
The European Union is a whole greater than the sum of its parts. And if one nation doesn't believe in that, that's a sad fact. And its departure will weaken all. But any incentives must come from within the Union. The benefit must be being part of the Union. Otherwise, they'd be right in wanting to leave the Union.
I don't think external incentives would have even worked that well for Brittain. I don't think their reasons were 'logical' to begin with.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 04:18:47 AM »
The UK had plenty of incentives to stay though. Offered by the European Union. The US jumping in there and offering to pitch in, while a good idea at heart, would cause an unfair an prefereable treatment of one nation, GB, versus the rest. Or would you also give incentives the moment France or Germany or Portugal decide to call it quits? You'd be opening a can of worms there.
The European Union is a whole greater than the sum of its parts. And if one nation doesn't believe in that, that's a sad fact. And its departure will weaken all. But any incentives must come from within the Union. The benefit must be being part of the Union. Otherwise, they'd be right in wanting to leave the Union.
I don't think external incentives would have even worked that well for Brittain. I don't think their reasons were 'logical' to begin with.

I understand.  But it seems the beginning of the breakdown of the Western Democracy Alliance.  And that matters.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2017, 05:13:11 AM »
I am against handing over sovereignty to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats and paying my taxes as tribute to the same.

The EU as it is run today, will fail. It is anti democratic, and becoming a totalitarian hegemony.
Aspirations to re-create the Roman Empire With Merkel as the new Caesar.

Third time lucky? Germany had already 2 attempts (WWI + WWII).

 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:17:19 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Cavebear

Re: Europe is killing itself
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2017, 05:20:21 AM »
I am against handing over sovereignty to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats and paying my taxes as tribute to the same.

The EU as it is run today, will fail. It is anti democratic, and becoming a totalitarian hegemony.

Europe may or may not become totalitarian.  They may become anti-democratic.  But they will probably never become a hegemony again.  Hegemony tends to follow trade connection patterns, and Europe isn't going to become THAT again unless the world needs some element or mineral they have that isn't currently valuable. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950