Author Topic: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion  (Read 702 times)

Offline trdsf

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2017, 01:54:30 PM »
I'm a little surprised that Mueller is filing charges this early; I didn't really expect anything until spring 2018.  Considering who Manafort not only is, but has been -- delegate hunt coordinator in several states in the Ford nomination campaign in '76, head of Reagan's southern campaign in '80, deputy political director of the GOP, adviser to both the Bush Sr and Dole campaigns -- he's not someone to be indicted lightly, least of all with the raft of charges brought by the grand jury.  I'm inclined to think Mueller is hoping that either Manafort or Gates will turn and plea out like Papadopoulos did.

Also, if he's got enough to get indictments this soon, that also suggests Manafort, Papadopoulous, Gates et al. were sloppy, or genuinely thought they were above the law and could do any damn thing they pleased, or both.

Should be an interesting ride from here on out.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2017, 02:01:24 PM »
Also, if he's got enough to get indictments this soon, that also suggests Manafort, Papadopoulous, Gates et al. were sloppy, or genuinely thought they were above the law and could do any damn thing they pleased, or both.
Reportedly, Papadopoulous dropped $900k at a rug store over the course of two years.  So a combination of the above seems likely.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 02:03:04 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2017, 08:52:23 PM »
Who cares if Trump enlisted the Russians to help him win the election?  It's a free country. 

We sure don't want Muslims running the place, but the Russians are actually helping, and even if they intend to be destructive, the overall result is positive.  So I say let them interfere all they want.  They gave us a president who actually cares for once, a man who knows how to get things done, a man of deep reflection and keen insight with a brilliant mind who wants to keep us safe from the Mexicans.  I simply don't understand all this fuss.

If for one, don't want Americans tampering in any American election.  Don't let them vote at all.  Let Madrid not only take over Catalonia, but the US as well.  Viva Madrid!
שלום

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2017, 01:05:49 AM »
What brains?
I think Duck Dynasty called them squirrel brains
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2017, 01:14:53 AM »
Who cares if Trump enlisted the Russians to help him win the election?  It's a free country. 

We sure don't want Muslims running the place, but the Russians are actually helping, and even if they intend to be destructive, the overall result is positive.  So I say let them interfere all they want.  They gave us a president who actually cares for once, a man who knows how to get things done, a man of deep reflection and keen insight with a brilliant mind who wants to keep us safe from the Mexicans.  I simply don't understand all this fuss.

that is some serious sarcasm 😏


The man sure knows how to get things done. Trump hired:
A Doctor to run a housing agency
A Tv talk show host as head scientist of USDA
A bartender as a Congressional liason
A candle maker as a confident in USDA
A car rental manager as a confident in USDA
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Online Shiranu

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2017, 02:10:50 AM »
I'm a little surprised that Mueller is filing charges this early; I didn't really expect anything until spring 2018.  Considering who Manafort not only is, but has been -- delegate hunt coordinator in several states in the Ford nomination campaign in '76, head of Reagan's southern campaign in '80, deputy political director of the GOP, adviser to both the Bush Sr and Dole campaigns -- he's not someone to be indicted lightly, least of all with the raft of charges brought by the grand jury.  I'm inclined to think Mueller is hoping that either Manafort or Gates will turn and plea out like Papadopoulos did.

Also, if he's got enough to get indictments this soon, that also suggests Manafort, Papadopoulous, Gates et al. were sloppy, or genuinely thought they were above the law and could do any damn thing they pleased, or both.

Should be an interesting ride from here on out.

Perhaps it's a threat; even if we cant find collusion with Russia, we will get you for financial misconduct and Al Capone your ass. And god knows Trump is going to be guilty of at least a little bit of financial shenanigans.

If there is one thing the government truly has moral opposition to, it's not getting it's fair share of the profits. I think this is both to get some plea bargains that incriminate Trump, and to get Trump sweating as the noose get's tighter and tighter around his neck. He wanted the spotlight... well, he got it, and now it's getting warmer by the day.
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Baruch

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2017, 03:12:20 AM »
that is some serious sarcasm 😏


The man sure knows how to get things done. Trump hired:
A Doctor to run a housing agency
A Tv talk show host as head scientist of USDA
A bartender as a Congressional liason
A candle maker as a confident in USDA
A car rental manager as a confident in USDA

Dustbin much?  I can't wait for the NorK EMP ... to destroy US infrastructure, leading to Agenda 21.  Oswald was a patsy, so is Kim Jong Un.
שלום

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2017, 11:45:39 AM »
I think Duck Dynasty called them squirrel brains
Never watched DD--but squirrels are smarter than that.  Snake brains?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2017, 01:21:00 PM »
Nowhere in the indictment do we see any collusion between Trump and 'the russians'.

Everything in the indictment is money laundering/tax evasion and attempts to avoid being called a lobbyist for foreign govs.  Quite a paper trail that does NOT tie into Trump, with dates revealed being long before Trump began his campaign and/or long before Manafort became associated with the Trump campaign.

Conspiracy charges are legal puffery. 99% of ALL crimes committed began as a conspiracy.  Once someone launders money or fails to file a form as required, it is no longer a conspiracy, but an action.

And I sure don't understand tax law on this level, foreign money, international business, etc.  I have no idea if Mueller overlooked a bunch of caveats in the tax laws to bring such charges.  One would think Manafort would be smart enough to cover his ass, but arrogance is often a corrupter of intelligence, so, maybe he just plain f-ed up.  I dont care if he spends a bunch of time behind bars for tax laws, good, I am sick of the rich avoiding taxes.  Fair enough.  If he paid back the loans and didnt file bankruptcy, I really dont care if he lied to get a better interest rate/higher loan. 

However, it is a pretty pitiful government overthrow attempt when the greatest hope lies within a jailhouse snitch.  What could possibly go wrong when there is a motivation for people (who lie) to lie some more to do the job for Mueller? 

Offline trdsf

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2017, 03:22:47 PM »
Perhaps it's a threat; even if we cant find collusion with Russia, we will get you for financial misconduct and Al Capone your ass. And god knows Trump is going to be guilty of at least a little bit of financial shenanigans.

If there is one thing the government truly has moral opposition to, it's not getting it's fair share of the profits. I think this is both to get some plea bargains that incriminate Trump, and to get Trump sweating as the noose get's tighter and tighter around his neck. He wanted the spotlight... well, he got it, and now it's getting warmer by the day.
And that's entirely possible, although he's reached really high, really quickly.  Then again, Dean was coöperating with the Watergate investigators by April of 1973.  Sadly, I don't think the Senate GOP has a Howard Baker these days, although I could be surprised.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Online Shiranu

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2017, 08:21:37 PM »
Quote
Nowhere in the indictment do we see any collusion between Trump and 'the russians'.

Probably because that's not the point of the indictment, nor was it marketed by the prosecution as being so.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 08:23:40 PM by Shiranu »
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Baruch

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2017, 08:24:17 PM »
Probably because that's not the point of the indictment, nor was it marketed by the prosecution as being so.

Permanent star chamber .. starting with the Ken Starr committee investigating Bill Clinton.  That would have kept a lot of this from happening.  All politicians are assumed guilty ... and they have to prove themselves innocent, every day.
שלום

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2017, 08:24:45 PM »
Trumpsters when Clinton's being investigated by the feds: "Lock her up!  Lock her up!"
Trumpsters when Trump's being investigated by the feds:  "These charges are legal puffery.  Snitches be lyin'.  What a pitiful government overthrow attempt!"
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 08:49:10 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2017, 08:26:12 PM »
Nowhere in the indictment do we see any collusion between Trump and 'the russians'.

Everything in the indictment is money laundering/tax evasion and attempts to avoid being called a lobbyist for foreign govs.  Quite a paper trail that does NOT tie into Trump, with dates revealed being long before Trump began his campaign and/or long before Manafort became associated with the Trump campaign.

Conspiracy charges are legal puffery. 99% of ALL crimes committed began as a conspiracy.  Once someone launders money or fails to file a form as required, it is no longer a conspiracy, but an action.

And I sure don't understand tax law on this level, foreign money, international business, etc.  I have no idea if Mueller overlooked a bunch of caveats in the tax laws to bring such charges.  One would think Manafort would be smart enough to cover his ass, but arrogance is often a corrupter of intelligence, so, maybe he just plain f-ed up.  I dont care if he spends a bunch of time behind bars for tax laws, good, I am sick of the rich avoiding taxes.  Fair enough.  If he paid back the loans and didnt file bankruptcy, I really dont care if he lied to get a better interest rate/higher loan. 

However, it is a pretty pitiful government overthrow attempt when the greatest hope lies within a jailhouse snitch.  What could possibly go wrong when there is a motivation for people (who lie) to lie some more to do the job for Mueller?

Perhaps the point is ... we know that all the rich folk, including Trump, have committed many white collar crimes, even before entering the White House.  They may not get him on something he did after election, but they can pull him in, anytime, for what happened before the election, in his business interests.
שלום

Re: Indictments in Mueller Probe of Trump-Russia Collusion
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2017, 09:05:23 PM »
Perhaps the point is ... we know that all the rich folk, including Trump, have committed many white collar crimes, even before entering the White House.  They may not get him on something he did after election, but they can pull him in, anytime, for what happened before the election, in his business interests.
Well we are still waiting for something like that, aren't we?

And I repeat, there is NOTHING in this indictment to indicate any kind of wrong doing by Trump (or Manafort/Gates) in relation to the election and russian collusion.