Author Topic: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer  (Read 246 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 10:35:27 AM »
I hesitate on this idea sometimes, but "freedom of speech" doesn't guarantee you a public podium paid for by others...

You are right ... this time ;-)  The question remains, who is paying, and why do they pay for this crap?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 04:09:00 AM »
You are right ... this time ;-)  The question remains, who is paying, and why do they pay for this crap?

Thank you, and I understand your point.  The question becomes who is paying for university operations.  I mean NOT the teachers' salaries and research costs, but the daily functioning of the campus.  It isn't entirely the State (or private school alumni) or the students's tuition and "fees".  It is partly both.

And I agree in general that one purpose of college is to be exposed to new ideas and thoughts.  But there is probably a limit in there somewhere.  Part of the college education is making choices. 

Would it be right to allow pederasts to promote their views?  Rapists?  There are always borders to consider.  So it becomes a question of how far to allow a choice of public speakers on a campus.  Socialists, OK, Communists, OK, dictators?  Violent criminals supporting violence, maybe not. 

Where is the line?  You draw it somewhere, and arguing about it is part of the college experience too.  I say let THEM argue about it and decide.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 06:46:17 AM »
Thank you, and I understand your point.  The question becomes who is paying for university operations.  I mean NOT the teachers' salaries and research costs, but the daily functioning of the campus.  It isn't entirely the State (or private school alumni) or the students's tuition and "fees".  It is partly both.

And I agree in general that one purpose of college is to be exposed to new ideas and thoughts.  But there is probably a limit in there somewhere.  Part of the college education is making choices. 

Would it be right to allow pederasts to promote their views?  Rapists?  There are always borders to consider.  So it becomes a question of how far to allow a choice of public speakers on a campus.  Socialists, OK, Communists, OK, dictators?  Violent criminals supporting violence, maybe not. 

Where is the line?  You draw it somewhere, and arguing about it is part of the college experience too.  I say let THEM argue about it and decide.

But not on my dime.  So I would ban inviting any public speakers.  I am not sure I would let even the professors speak.  America is 320 million countries .. nothing in common around which to rally.  See, our Deep Throat plan worked, Comrade.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 07:56:52 AM »
But not on my dime.  So I would ban inviting any public speakers.  I am not sure I would let even the professors speak.  America is 320 million countries .. nothing in common around which to rally.  See, our Deep Throat plan worked, Comrade.

"ANY" public speakers and professors too. huh?  Home schooling for everyone, or perhaps education is just reading in the college library.  Either way is sad and limited.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 07:48:32 PM »
"ANY" public speakers and professors too. huh?  Home schooling for everyone, or perhaps education is just reading in the college library.  Either way is sad and limited.

I have always been pro-library.  If you can't read, expel you to China, let them feed you.  Home schooling ... because of lending libraries ... so you don't have to do all your reading in the library.  I hate public speakers ... just like politicians.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2017, 02:15:44 AM »
I have always been pro-library.  If you can't read, expel you to China, let them feed you.  Home schooling ... because of lending libraries ... so you don't have to do all your reading in the library.  I hate public speakers ... just like politicians.

I have spoken to adults who were home-schooled as children.  They generally have large gaps in their knowledge.  And most have an anti-science, anti-vaccine, anti-discussion failure. 

You miss out on learning to argue facts when it is just Mom teaching you. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 02:17:18 AM »
I have spoken to adults who were home-schooled as children.  They generally have large gaps in their knowledge.  And most have an anti-science, anti-vaccine, anti-discussion failure. 

You miss out on learning to argue facts when it is just Mom teaching you.

You can't argue with Mom, even when you are 60.  She has an unfair advantage.  So glad your public school was one long debate club ... not.  Well mine wasn't.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 03:18:56 AM »
You can't argue with Mom, even when you are 60.  She has an unfair advantage.  So glad your public school was one long debate club ... not.  Well mine wasn't.

Public schools provide a range of educational and social experiences that home schooling does not.  I have nieces who were public schooled and some home-schooled and the differences are obvious.  The public schooled ones "discuss" and the home schooled ones "declare".  Because the home schooled ones never had to engage in discussions among many.

And, BTW, I loved my Mom, but we engaged in long debates by letters most of our shared lives.  It was really a shock to her at first that I could disagree, but she got over it after a decade.  It took some effort.  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2017, 10:58:12 AM »
Public schools provide a range of educational and social experiences that home schooling does not.  I have nieces who were public schooled and some home-schooled and the differences are obvious.  The public schooled ones "discuss" and the home schooled ones "declare".  Because the home schooled ones never had to engage in discussions among many.

And, BTW, I loved my Mom, but we engaged in long debates by letters most of our shared lives.  It was really a shock to her at first that I could disagree, but she got over it after a decade.  It took some effort.  LOL!

The original idea of public school, was NE religious, and was reasonable, particularly in the version endorsed by Jefferson.  It came from Boston, not the swamp.  Then Karl Marx endorsed it, as necessary to indoctrinate young communists.  That pretty much killed it in paranoid America.  All teachers are Nazis/Communists/Atheists.  And race mixers.  That is what pushed home schooling.  That and a few parents had the opportunity and interest to take responsibility for their own children.  Public school as it was in 1960 could be broadening.  But then there was "The Asphalt Jungle".
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2017, 11:16:27 AM »
The original idea of public school, was NE religious, and was reasonable, particularly in the version endorsed by Jefferson.  It came from Boston, not the swamp.  Then Karl Marx endorsed it, as necessary to indoctrinate young communists.  That pretty much killed it in paranoid America.  All teachers are Nazis/Communists/Atheists.  And race mixers.  That is what pushed home schooling.  That and a few parents had the opportunity and interest to take responsibility for their own children.  Public school as it was in 1960 could be broadening.  But then there was "The Asphalt Jungle".

O...M...Cod!  You have completely gone off the deep end here.  Are you OK?  Can I politely and in consideration suggest you take a break?

Public schools are an old American tradition.  Well before Karl Marx.  Public schools are not taught by "Nazis/Communists/Atheists".  Actually my concern is that there are too many teachers who would push religious views on their students if they could.  And I only say that because many do when given the freedom to. 

And teachers are "race mixers"?  Do you understand how bad that sounds?  You are suggesting either that teachers are pushing students to date members of other racial groups (a fiction due to evolutionary adjustment to sunlight) or forcibly and inappropriately mixing races in their classes (oh the ghastly horror).

So, home-schooling is for "protecting" children from "others"?  Well, I rather agree with that but from the opposite side of the fence.  I think home-schooling IS mostly to separate children of one group for another, but for negative reasons. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2017, 01:53:44 PM »
O...M...Cod!  You have completely gone off the deep end here.  Are you OK?  Can I politely and in consideration suggest you take a break?

Public schools are an old American tradition.  Well before Karl Marx.  Public schools are not taught by "Nazis/Communists/Atheists".  Actually my concern is that there are too many teachers who would push religious views on their students if they could.  And I only say that because many do when given the freedom to. 

And teachers are "race mixers"?  Do you understand how bad that sounds?  You are suggesting either that teachers are pushing students to date members of other racial groups (a fiction due to evolutionary adjustment to sunlight) or forcibly and inappropriately mixing races in their classes (oh the ghastly horror).

So, home-schooling is for "protecting" children from "others"?  Well, I rather agree with that but from the opposite side of the fence.  I think home-schooling IS mostly to separate children of one group for another, but for negative reasons.

Like I said, it came from New England, and then got further improved by Jefferson.

"In 1821, Boston started the first public high school in the United States. By the close of the 19th century, public secondary schools began to outnumber private ones. Over the years, Americans have been influenced by a number of European reformers; among them Pestalozzi, Herbart, and Montessori." - Wikipedia.

This came about because the Puritans turned into Unitarians by that time, so they were willing to mix in a way that wasn't conceivable in colonial times.  Remember that movie "Glory"?  That was Boston being progressive way back when.  BTW - My daughter was sent to a Montessori-type kindergarten ... after that, to public school.  The primary problem with public school there and then, was lack of funding, and stupid school boards.  It would be great, if all the kids were from university educated parents, and came from a rich neighborhood.

When I have to talk about the bad old 1970s and the "busing" era, it is necessary to not White-wash it like PC folks do.  I knew then, and now, why people were opposed to busing.  I didn't have much experience, because I lived in a White suburb, and busing was in the inner-city schools ... because of redlining school support within the inner-city.  Rich inner city folks didn't want to pay for private school, or have their kids mix with poor folk (not just colored folk).  Rich people reacted by sending their kids to private academies.  Poor people took up home-schooling for obvious reasons if they could.  Not many could, since it was now necessary for most mom's to work outside the home.  There was a reason why my parents lived in the outer suburbs ... they weren't as color blind as I am.  If you lived in an ex-urb, or a religious ghetto (Orthodox Jew in upstate NY) then you operated outside of the under-funded or biased public schools, already.  The real heyday of integrated schools was in the NE, with all the European immigrants, in the early 20th century.  Kids were taught only in English, and taught to be Americans ... their parents might never have learned English very well, and had to work in appalling conditions and live in tenements.  My Ex's Italian side fled those conditions to go West.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 06:28:02 AM »
Like I said, it came from New England, and then got further improved by Jefferson.

"In 1821, Boston started the first public high school in the United States. By the close of the 19th century, public secondary schools began to outnumber private ones. Over the years, Americans have been influenced by a number of European reformers; among them Pestalozzi, Herbart, and Montessori." - Wikipedia.

This came about because the Puritans turned into Unitarians by that time, so they were willing to mix in a way that wasn't conceivable in colonial times.  Remember that movie "Glory"?  That was Boston being progressive way back when.  BTW - My daughter was sent to a Montessori-type kindergarten ... after that, to public school.  The primary problem with public school there and then, was lack of funding, and stupid school boards.  It would be great, if all the kids were from university educated parents, and came from a rich neighborhood.

When I have to talk about the bad old 1970s and the "busing" era, it is necessary to not White-wash it like PC folks do.  I knew then, and now, why people were opposed to busing.  I didn't have much experience, because I lived in a White suburb, and busing was in the inner-city schools ... because of redlining school support within the inner-city.  Rich inner city folks didn't want to pay for private school, or have their kids mix with poor folk (not just colored folk).  Rich people reacted by sending their kids to private academies.  Poor people took up home-schooling for obvious reasons if they could.  Not many could, since it was now necessary for most mom's to work outside the home.  There was a reason why my parents lived in the outer suburbs ... they weren't as color blind as I am.  If you lived in an ex-urb, or a religious ghetto (Orthodox Jew in upstate NY) then you operated outside of the under-funded or biased public schools, already.  The real heyday of integrated schools was in the NE, with all the European immigrants, in the early 20th century.  Kids were taught only in English, and taught to be Americans ... their parents might never have learned English very well, and had to work in appalling conditions and live in tenements.  My Ex's Italian side fled those conditions to go West.

So you are defending home-schooling by giving a good history of public-schooling?  I like that.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 07:09:40 PM »
Yes, everything was wonderful, before there were Republicans ;-)

There are good home schools and bad home schools.  Most things humans do, are bad, both public and private.  We are a failed species.  I was giving context, not advocacy.  With liberals it is ivory tower advocacy all the time.  With conservatives it is kill-the-poor advocacy all the time.  Both are failures.

So if you were a wealthy parent in 1972 ... what would you do if bussing came to your kid's public school?  I know, put on your Che t-shirt ;-)  Or put your hair in a white-afro ... to show solidarity with the Black Panthers.  A few, in Berkeley, did that.  If you were a poor parent, with a stay at home mom, what would you do?  Go socialize down at the Black barbershop?  No, you would ask the mother of your children, to forget getting a job outside the home, and make her do her parenting job.  But most couldn't do either.  You stayed in public school, for better or worse.  I was in a nice suburb, so it was for better.  My parents couldn't afford private school for me, and they still remembered FDR, even if they didn't support MLK.

What is true now, is a carry-on from that time.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2017, 12:33:29 AM »
Yes, everything was wonderful, before there were Republicans ;-)

There are good home schools and bad home schools.  Most things humans do, are bad, both public and private.  We are a failed species.  I was giving context, not advocacy.  With liberals it is ivory tower advocacy all the time.  With conservatives it is kill-the-poor advocacy all the time.  Both are failures.

So if you were a wealthy parent in 1972 ... what would you do if bussing came to your kid's public school?  I know, put on your Che t-shirt ;-)  Or put your hair in a white-afro ... to show solidarity with the Black Panthers.  A few, in Berkeley, did that.  If you were a poor parent, with a stay at home mom, what would you do?  Go socialize down at the Black barbershop?  No, you would ask the mother of your children, to forget getting a job outside the home, and make her do her parenting job.  But most couldn't do either.  You stayed in public school, for better or worse.  I was in a nice suburb, so it was for better.  My parents couldn't afford private school for me, and they still remembered FDR, even if they didn't support MLK.

What is true now, is a carry-on from that time.

Well, In 1972, I was in my last year of University dorm residency after having a variety of roommates from places all over the US.  In high school, I attended a fully integrated public school and never had any problem with that. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: I plan on protesting Richard Spencer
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2017, 02:28:09 AM »
Well, In 1972, I was in my last year of University dorm residency after having a variety of roommates from places all over the US.  In high school, I attended a fully integrated public school and never had any problem with that.

You were sane (for a young bear) ... and not a target of Black gangs.  Of course it is any different when a White boy beats you in the hallway for your lunch money?  We had a few of those in my HS ... not in the FFA or SC set.
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