Author Topic: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now  (Read 372 times)

Online Hydra009 (OP)

A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« on: October 29, 2017, 09:30:52 PM »


(the relevant part is 42 seconds in)



51% of Dems - a majority - have a favorable view of George W. Bush now.  While he was in office, that figure was just 7%.  Seven percent.  That's "would you like to be kicked in the balls?" numbers.

What changed?

To the best of my knowledge, most of it is because Dubya came out against Trump.  That's apparently all you have to do to get Democrats to like you these days.  The enemy of my enemy...

The rest might be a false sense of nostalgia for the "good ol' days" before the Dark Reign of Trump.  In those "good" times, the headline was Bush Sr insisting, "My son is not a warmonger."  People were calling W a war criminal and threw around empty threats of dragging him to the Hague.

Granted, I'll allow that the person of George W. Bush seems to be very different from my impression of his during years as Prez - he comes across as far more thoughtful and compassionate than I previously gave him credit.  How much of that is due to the lack of Darth Cheney by his side is unknown. 

While as a person, I think he's not quite as bad as he was made out to be, his administration is much less likable.  We got:
* A preemptive war under false pretenses (as bad as Trump is, he has yet to give us one of those)
* The Patriot Act
* Gitmo
* support for torture and secret prisons
* a tax cut primarily for the rich
* blocked stem cell research
* opposed gay marriage (I sincerely hope none of Dubya's admirers are gay Americans)
* refused to take serious action to combat climate change, much like Trump (to his credit, at least Dubya believes it's real and not a chinese hoax)
* supported creationism 2.0 (aka intelligent design) in its holy crusade into public schools.  Bush publicly stated that both sides should be taught - actual science alongside the idea that an Intelligent God, err...I mean Designer did it.  Whew.  Close one.

The W Bush administration, in many ways, laid the groundwork for Trump.  Imho, it was Trump version 0.5

This stuff should NOT be normalized.

I worry that by praising people to the left of Trump, liberals are inadvertently shifting the Overton window to the right and accidentally giving an air of acceptability to policies that are almost as bad as Trump's policies.

I also worry that liberals' displeasure is a simple on/off switch controlled by a few talking heads.  That worries the crap out of me.  I give Republicans crap about lacking principles all the time, I'd hate to reach a similar conclusion about Democrats.

And going forward, we shouldn't even think about splitting the difference between our positions and Trump's - we should be working to move a deeply damaged country back to something approaching actually liberal policies, and you don't do that by lauding people who opposed that.  If anything, we should have our own candidate with "radical" positions unthinkable to conservatives and meet them halfway - thereby enacting somewhat liberal positions.

But I fear that Republicans have already beat us to the punch and it's just a slow, inevitable slide to the right from here on out.  In 8 years time, a majority of Dems might even fondly remember Trump because he just criticized a President worse than him. *shudders*
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 09:40:58 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2017, 10:50:44 PM »
That and the Dems are just as much Deep State as the Repubs.  Presidents Clinton and Obama are war mongers.  After a full release of the Kennedy papers ... what next?  More truth about 9/11?  Trump haters are going to get what they want, President Pence.  Who will do as he is told.
שלום

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2017, 11:15:19 PM »
Talks about a country moving evermore to the right. lol. Dude, Trump is the first pro-gay politician ever while going into presidency. Look, if you think Trump is anywhere close to the end of the spectrum that represents the most right-wing presidents the US has ever had, then you are dull in the fucking head.

"I also worry that liberals' displeasure is a simple on/off switch controlled by a few talking heads.  That worries the crap out of me."

Don't worry about that. Liberals aren't so fickle. Now, if you're talking about democrats, or SJW's, then sure, that's exactly what they are; same with repubs. There's a lot of idiots in america who fancy themselves liberals because that's what their detractors call them, but neither themselves nore their detractors know a thing about liberalism.

By the way, what policies of Trumps do you think are too far right? I guarantee you I can outmatch all policies you name with an obama policy that rivals it in 'right-ness.' The simple truth is most people are fucking dumb, and therefore aren't judging politicians based on policy. They simply turn on the MSM and pretend that politics is a soap-opera.


Offline Shiranu

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 11:29:51 PM »
I will say this... a few days ago, I actually had the thought of, "Man... I actually miss Bush. Even he was better than this shit show."

I don't mean that as a favorable view of him. I only mean that's how bottom of the barrel we are scratching.

And please Gil, Trump has been terrible for gay people. How about all the repeals of Obama era regulations that Trump hasn't opposed, or out right supported (attempts to repeal ACA, the latest bill repealed that means banks and financial institutions no longer having to appear before a jury and instead can just arbitrate that was approved by pence, etc)?

It's not so much Trump being right wing, it's more he is just a heartless, void of integrity shit stain. It's just coincidence that the neo-con movement, which leans predominately right, happen to agree with him... :roll:

And don't get me started on his treatment of Puerto Rico, or I swear to god I will find a way to reach through the screen and bitch slap the living fuck out of you if you think it has been anything other than horrific.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 11:31:45 PM by Shiranu »
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Online Hydra009 (OP)

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 11:35:04 PM »
Talks about a country moving evermore to the right. lol.
In some ways, yes, at least among elected officials.  Bush at least had the decency to distance himself from the torture and insist that it's not really torture.  Trump looks right into the camera and says "torture works!" with a straight face.  He even talks about it with unsettling enthusiasm.  And he's apparently far from alone.  Bush didn't make much headway on climate change, but at least he knows it's going on.  Trump talks about it like it's a delusion that some liberal dreamed up some day to scare businessmen.  He makes nuke threats like I make coffee.  I could go on and on.

Yes, the "we should kill their families and take their oil" guy is totally off his rocker.  The fact that you don't even notice this shows your blinders.

Quote
Dude, Trump is the first pro-gay politician ever while going into presidency.
Not counting transgender ban from the man himself and Mike "shock 'em" Pence?  And this assumption is based primarily from him holding a flag that one of his supporters threw to him.  Logic almost as solid as the logic that went into pizzagate, lol.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 10:57:32 AM by Hydra009 »

Online Hydra009 (OP)

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 11:45:01 PM »
I guarantee you I can outmatch all policies you name with an obama policy that rivals it in 'right-ness.'
Alright.  Global warming.

Whatever mental contortions you'd have to make to get reality fit your conclusion are bound to be hilarious.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 10:56:58 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 02:14:18 AM »
George Bush, despite his policies, was at least a respectable President. The mentally challenged orangutan currently in office doesn't have a Presidential bone in his body. Next to the other Presidents of history, Drumph sticks out like a sore thumb.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2017, 02:39:51 AM »
this is a trend that is ending with the past and current generation, the back and forth from center right to far right based on whos president, democrats shift back and forth between the two, and its finally coming to an end, the people who shifted to liking bush aren't the youth, they're older people.

Offline Shiranu

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2017, 02:45:10 AM »
George Bush, despite his policies, was at least a respectable President. The mentally challenged orangutan currently in office doesn't have a Presidential bone in his body. Next to the other Presidents of history, Drumph sticks out like a sore thumb.

I think perhaps Nixon, though Nixon had the brains to not normally show how sleezy he was, is comparable in someways. But even Nixon had leagues more class than Trump. Probably have to go all the way back to Jackson to find a president who was just as completely and utterly terrible of human being as Trump is.

That is not great company to keep, for either Jackson or Trump.
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2017, 02:53:57 AM »
George Bush, despite his policies, was at least a respectable President. The mentally challenged orangutan currently in office doesn't have a Presidential bone in his body. Next to the other Presidents of history, Drumph sticks out like a sore thumb.
This is one of the issues with americans, the "We don't care if you kill 3rd world people, get rid of necessarily regulations, and deny us necessities, just be nice about it or you have a problem" mentality

Offline Baruch

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2017, 06:33:56 AM »
George Bush, despite his policies, was at least a respectable President. The mentally challenged orangutan currently in office doesn't have a Presidential bone in his body. Next to the other Presidents of history, Drumph sticks out like a sore thumb.

President Bush?  Don't you mean President Cheney?  President Trump?  Don't you mean President Pence?
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2017, 06:35:39 AM »
This is one of the issues with americans, the "We don't care if you kill 3rd world people, get rid of necessarily regulations, and deny us necessities, just be nice about it or you have a problem" mentality

Being an American means ... elect me President or go away.  Individualism run amok.  While I don't think Hillary would have been an improvement (Kaine would have been the real President), Bernie would have been interesting.  But Bernie got to play McGovern.
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2017, 08:14:35 AM »
Comparing Trump to Bush is difficult for me.  It's like comparing GPS navigation to bug zappers.  They are unrelated.  They are both horrible presidents.  Bush's lies and propaganda were more sinister and evil with an obvious intent of doing harm.  Trump is not as evil, although possibly more devastating, but we can't know that yet.  His policies may well end up doing more harm world wide that Bush's, but I don't think it's an intended goal.  He is more unaware of his motivations and their consequences.  He is incompetent and thoughtless more than he is evil.  Bush seemed to have a greater awareness of what he was doing.  Was he a better president?  Is comparative harm done the standard we use or something else?  We would have to know the future to make that judgment now.  For Trump, the outcomes have yet to come out.

I don't think Hillary fits in when comparing presidents.  She never was president, failed twice to become president, and never achieved or failed in any presidential initiatives or leaves any presidential legacy behind.  It's time to stop obsessing on her.  Most Democrats have gotten over her.  Some of the right wing can't seem to let her go.

Online Hydra009 (OP)

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 11:07:54 AM »
Comparing Trump to Bush is difficult for me.  It's like comparing GPS navigation to bug zappers.  They are unrelated.  They are both horrible presidents.  Bush's lies and propaganda were more sinister and evil with an obvious intent of doing harm.  Trump is not as evil, although possibly more devastating, but we can't know that yet.  His policies may well end up doing more harm world wide that Bush's, but I don't think it's an intended goal.  He is more unaware of his motivations and their consequences.  He is incompetent and thoughtless more than he is evil.  Bush seemed to have a greater awareness of what he was doing.  Was he a better president?  Is comparative harm done the standard we use or something else?  We would have to know the future to make that judgment now.  For Trump, the outcomes have yet to come out.
Fair enough, though with evil, I'm talking more about the consequences than the intent.  I don't think we can really know intent for sure, while the consequences are much easier to figure out.

Trump seems obsessed with dismantling everything Obama put his name to, and much of Obama's tenure was trying to clean up W Bush's messes.  If anything, you'd think Bush would like Trump for that.  It's a real testament to Trump's leadership abilities that he makes enemies everywhere he goes.

Online Hydra009 (OP)

Re: A majority of Democrats like W Bush now
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2017, 11:14:10 AM »
This is one of the issues with americans, the "We don't care if you kill 3rd world people, get rid of necessarily regulations, and deny us necessities, just be nice about it or you have a problem" mentality
That was a real bugbear of mine during the election.  You had a guy who said he would approve waterboarding immediately and "make it much worse" (whatever that's supposed to mean) and the Dems fired back with scathing attack ads talking about how he uses profanity when kids might be watching.