Author Topic: Gun Control  (Read 1105 times)

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2017, 03:35:32 PM »
It's not a conspiracy theory when you have Nancy Pelosi telling people that she certainly hopes a piece of proposed gun control legislation is the first step on a slippery slope.
It is a conspiracy theory when they are double damn CERTAIN that's what's going to happen.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2017, 03:39:27 PM »
From Pelosi's perspective it's a policy statement.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Re: Gun Control
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2017, 03:43:14 PM »
From Pelosi's perspective it's a policy statement.
Straining at gnats and swallowing camels again.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2017, 03:59:37 PM »
I think Pelosi represents an unusually liberal contingent of the Democratic Party.  What she wishes for does not represent the reality of what Americans in general could live with.  She may wish for a slippery slope, and she might even see it take a couple of steps beyond whatever specific legislation she is talking about, but she won't get to see guns banned.  She's just talking to the 12th district and a select part of the ultra left.    Actually, I doubt that she cares that much anyway.

I also wonder what the left actually wants.  I'm left of left.  Too far left to vote for a typical Democrat, but I am so because of environmental issues.  Yes, I think gun regulation is entirely appropriate, but I have no interest in banning them.  I dunno; I may not be typical, but I wonder about it. 

Politics has become so divisive and partisan that many people end up taking an extreme position based on a knee jerk reaction to the opposite extreme, which often isn't necessarily rational.  I believe there can be room for compromise that can benefit the good of a majority, but the extremes are set up to divide voters along party lines.  We have learned to hate each other, and I believe this has been choreographed by politicians and special interests.

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2017, 04:10:40 PM »
Three percent of Americans own half the 256,000,000 guns in the country. That's less that one million Americans owning 123,000,000 guns, over an hundred guns each on the average.

Most Americans don't own guns.

Discounting the 3%, Americans own less than one gun each on the average.

The lunatic fringe of gunownership is the problem here.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2017, 04:23:46 PM »
A policy statement does not translate directly into a slippery slope.  A policy is a statement of purpose.  In the case of any politician, government organization, or corporate boardroom a policy is at most bullshit.  At the least, it's a malleable guide for consideration, and never followed to a Tee.  Even if it's not bullshit for Pelosi, she doesn't represent a majority by any means.  I can see why Pelosi scares the NRA and the right, but she is not in a position to slide America all the way down a slope, and she knows it.  America in general is far too conservative to let her do it.  I wouldn't judge or fear America by what Pelosi says she wants.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 04:26:56 PM by SGOS »

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2017, 04:39:12 PM »
No REASONABLE person wants a total gun ban. It would take an act of Congress to revoke my licenses and the one like them. But when the gunners produce a Las Vegas-style event they're actually shooting themselves in the ass, er foot.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline trdsf

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2017, 04:52:30 PM »
No REASONABLE person wants a total gun ban. It would take an act of Congress to revoke my licenses and the one like them. But when the gunners produce a Las Vegas-style event they're actually shooting themselves in the ass, er foot.
A total gun ban is not Constitutionally possible anyway.  It would require amendment, and is simply not even a remotely plausible goal on any time frame less than many, many decades -- and isn't really plausible even then.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2017, 05:09:00 PM »
A total gun ban is not Constitutionally possible anyway.  It would require amendment, and is simply not even a remotely plausible goal on any time frame less than many, many decades -- and isn't really plausible even then.
SCOTUS changed the amendment, they can change it again.

And giving up is not how problems get solved.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2017, 10:54:26 PM »
SCOTUS changed the amendment, they can change it again.

And giving up is not how problems get solved.

Don't like people, then XXX people.  ISIS understands this.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2017, 10:55:19 PM »
I think Pelosi represents an unusually liberal contingent of the Democratic Party.  What she wishes for does not represent the reality of what Americans in general could live with.  She may wish for a slippery slope, and she might even see it take a couple of steps beyond whatever specific legislation she is talking about, but she won't get to see guns banned.  She's just talking to the 12th district and a select part of the ultra left.    Actually, I doubt that she cares that much anyway.

I also wonder what the left actually wants.  I'm left of left.  Too far left to vote for a typical Democrat, but I am so because of environmental issues.  Yes, I think gun regulation is entirely appropriate, but I have no interest in banning them.  I dunno; I may not be typical, but I wonder about it. 

Politics has become so divisive and partisan that many people end up taking an extreme position based on a knee jerk reaction to the opposite extreme, which often isn't necessarily rational.  I believe there can be room for compromise that can benefit the good of a majority, but the extremes are set up to divide voters along party lines.  We have learned to hate each other, and I believe this has been choreographed by politicians and special interests.

Just watched a stage rendition of The Crucible.  Before it is over, D and R will be burning each other, as witches ... cackle, cackle
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2017, 03:22:12 AM »
The second amendment of the United States Constitution states: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Obviously the need for a state militia has been replaced by the National Guard and Coast Guard whereby trained military personnel are entrusted with the defense of this country against domestic enemies. Their weapons are tightly controlled and safeguarded.

The only two reasons for a citizen to own a firearm are for hunting or defense of the household from intruders. In either case, ownership of a handgun, shotgun or rifle is more than adequate to satisfy these purposes. There is absolutely no need for any U.S. civilian to own any weapon more powerful or sophisticated than these.

Accordingly, all handguns, shotguns and rifles must be licensed and registered to the degree necessary to match weapon to owner at the click of a computer key. Furthermore, we must guarantee that the mentally ill do not gain access to them under any circumstances. Finally, if we had prohibited the purchase of more sophisticated weapons several innocent victims would not have died or been harmed at shopping malls, college campuses, Congressional meetings, churches, and now concerts. We as a country must deal with this issue immediately lest our society fall back to the days when everyone carried a holster.

I agree that is the actual meaning of the 2nd amendment.  "A well-regulated militia" is the army.  We just didn't have a standing army then.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2017, 06:09:00 AM »
No, the militia was NOT the Army. The militia were locals who would be the first-responders in an emergency.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2017, 06:25:24 AM »
No, the militia was NOT the Army. The militia were locals who would be the first-responders in an emergency.

That WAS the original army and what the Founders thought was possible.  They had no more concept of our modern army that farmers then had of tractors.  The Founders lived in a time of citizen armies and we do not now.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2017, 06:36:57 AM »
That WAS the original army and what the Founders thought was possible.  They had no more concept of our modern army that farmers then had of tractors.  The Founders lived in a time of citizen armies and we do not now.
This is what they thought a militia was: https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsp&fileName=019/llsp019.db&recNum=888
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers