Religion is declining in the US

[Baruch]

If your standard is the scientific method, that's already too high a bar for miracles to clear.

If I had to define a miracle, it would be an event that cannot be explained even by chance -- that is, it genuinely needs to be physically impossible, not merely very improbable.  Only under those circumstances is an appeal to the supernatural remotely plausible.

A good rhetorical position to take, but only rhetorical.  Rhetoric means ... getting to win an argument before the other guy even opens his mouth.  See Sun Tzu on Speaking.  I take the exact opposite definition ... because I am not looking to win by any means necessary.  I don't even care to win.

[Baruch]

Typical technical textbook at my college.  It is discouraging when even the text writer is trying to cover up his own ignorance.  He does "miracle here" because he can't bridge the gap himself ;-(

[Cavebear]

Because Cavebear can't tolerate positive feedback?  I think rather the opposite is true.

I tolerate both positive and negative feedback.  One can't be an atheist and not be used to the negative feedback.  Anything positive is nice.

[Cavebear]

But keep in mind the caption there was something like "I think there may be a problem here".

[Cavebear]

If your standard is the scientific method, that's already too high a bar for miracles to clear.

If I had to define a miracle, it would be an event that cannot be explained even by chance -- that is, it genuinely needs to be physically impossible, not merely very improbable.  Only under those circumstances is an appeal to the supernatural remotely plausible.

Completely agree.   A "miracle" has to be outside all the laws of nature as we understand them.  Stopping a planet's rotation temporarily, for example.

[trdsf]

Completely agree.   A "miracle" has to be outside all the laws of nature as we understand them.  Stopping a planet's rotation temporarily, for example.

And without everything on the planet's surface being flung eastwards at about a thousand miles an hour.  And restarting it without everything being dragged westward at the same speed.

[Hydra009]

If I had to define a miracle, it would be an event that cannot be explained even by chance -- that is, it genuinely needs to be physically impossible, not merely very improbable.  Only under those circumstances is an appeal to the supernatural remotely plausible.

And it goes without saying that physically impossible things tend to not happen very often.

Even stuff that may have seemed impossible at the time - like pulsars - become a whole lot less impossible when more is discovered about them.  So there's simply no niche for miracles - either it's understood and definitely not a miracle or not understood and it's too early to tell.

[Cavebear]

And without everything on the planet's surface being flung eastwards at about a thousand miles an hour.  And restarting it without everything being dragged westward at the same speed.

Nice to see real physics involved in a discussion on miracles.    If it had happened that the Earth was stopped in rotation, the surface structures would have benn flung off at 1.000 MPH, the winds would have increased by that amount, and (possibly) the crust would have been flung off.

[Baruch]

And it goes without saying that physically impossible things tend to not happen very often.

Even stuff that may have seemed impossible at the time - like pulsars - become a whole lot less impossible when more is discovered about them.  So there's simply no niche for miracles - either it's understood and definitely not a miracle or not understood and it's too early to tell.

But ape men understand nothing.  Scientist ape men perhaps, but the rest of us ... understand nothing at all.  Unfortunately what we keep discovering is that Nature wants very badly to kill us.  A nearby pulsar would sterilize our planet very quickly from the radiation streaming from its magnetic poles.  If that did happen, it wouldn't be a miracle, but a job well done.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

But keep in mind the caption there was something like "I think there may be a problem here".

Never seen it with that. Stands alone to me.

[Unbeliever]

And without everything on the planet's surface being flung eastwards at about a thousand miles an hour.  And restarting it without everything being dragged westward at the same speed.

I don't know, it didn't seem that hard when Superman did it...

[Cavebear]

I don't know, it didn't seem that hard when Superman did it...

Oh I love Superman.  Somehow, flying around the Earth fast reverses time.  My favorite thing was when, in one comic, he held a jet from flying.  Now wait a few...  It is one thing to use his super strength to hold something when he has something else to hold onto or crush stuff in his hands (never mind that COAL is plant material and can't be turned into diamond). 

But when he holds a flying jet just by standing on the Earth, all he has is his weight.  And I don't think even DC Comics claimed he weighed 80 tons.  That would have crushed the floors of The Daily Planet offices.  LOL!  IIRC, Marvel comics even made fun of that decades ago.  'Nuff Said'...

[fencerider]

but but but Superman did a gradual slow down. He didnt stop the earth on a dime. It was probably still fast enough to make huge tidal waves.

If we were talking about Noah’s flood and Joshua’s stopping the sun on the same day there might be some truth to the story ;-)

[Cavebear]

but but but Superman did a gradual slow down. He didnt stop the earth on a dime. It was probably still fast enough to make huge tidal waves.

If we were talking about Noah’s flood and Joshua’s stopping the sun on the same day there might be some truth to the story ;-)

Well he did undo the earthquake.  But he still can't brush his teeth when there is kryptonite around. 

BTW, have you ever considered how massive his planet must have been to spread so much kryptonite around 360 degrees from so far away?  There shouldn't be an atom of the stuff in the solar system.

And Lex Luthor can find a whole chunk of it whenever he wants.  Silly stuff.  Not like the logic of being bitten by a radioactive spider and then being able to climb walls. 

*coff, coff*

[Baruch]

Well he did undo the earthquake.  But he still can't brush his teeth when there is kryptonite around. 

BTW, have you ever considered how massive his planet must have been to spread so much kryptonite around 360 degrees from so far away?  There shouldn't be an atom of the stuff in the solar system.

And Lex Luthor can find a whole chunk of it whenever he wants.  Silly stuff.  Not like the logic of being bitten by a radioactive spider and then being able to climb walls. 

*coff, coff*

Kryptonite ... strange meteorite meme.  In an old Dr Who, the meteorites were aliens, who turned into giant plant monsters, beloved by "Green Thumbs" everywhere.