Author Topic: US History I Didn't Know  (Read 232 times)

Offline Baruch (OP)

US History I Didn't Know
« on: October 20, 2017, 06:55:14 PM »
http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/02/01/how-the-russian-navy-saved-the-union-in-the-civil-war/

I knew about the Trent affair, but didn't know the Russian involvement.  DeToqueville was prophetic, even earlier than I thought.
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Offline SGOS

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 04:52:52 AM »
Russia hasn't always been such a bad ass.  There was no doubt oppression of the masses during the rule of the aristocracy, but that was true everywhere else too.  Things seemed to take a turn for the worse when the peasants took over.  I'm all for the underdog, but given enough power, underdogs often turn into assholes themselves.

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 09:20:16 AM »
Russia hasn't always been such a bad ass.  There was no doubt oppression of the masses during the rule of the aristocracy, but that was true everywhere else too.  Things seemed to take a turn for the worse when the peasants took over.  I'm all for the underdog, but given enough power, underdogs often turn into assholes themselves.

I studied Russian for 4 years in HS.  It was the Cold War.  I spent 10 years working in weapons development for the DoD ... to kill commies, should it prove necessary.  But I don't fear or hate Russians.  I respect them.  If we don't respect them, it will be the death of us.  I have Czarist and revolutionary money in my paper money collection.  What people do is frightening, is it not?  There but for the grace of the USA, I would go and do likewise.  I got a soft spot for monarchies, but maybe only because I haven't live in one except for the Kennedy, Bush, Clinton families (cough, cough).  But I have to side with the little guy first.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 04:56:28 AM »
Russia hasn't always been such a bad ass.  There was no doubt oppression of the masses during the rule of the aristocracy, but that was true everywhere else too.  Things seemed to take a turn for the worse when the peasants took over.  I'm all for the underdog, but given enough power, underdogs often turn into assholes themselves.

Russia was the BAD ASS of European monarchies until 1917.  The butchery against the serfs was routine and far worse than in any other European monarchy.  Which isn't saying a LOT but they were worse.  It was the obvious spot for a revolution.  And it didn't get much better afterwards.  And STILL isn't.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 11:06:39 PM »
Russia was the BAD ASS of European monarchies until 1917.  The butchery against the serfs was routine and far worse than in any other European monarchy.  Which isn't saying a LOT but they were worse.  It was the obvious spot for a revolution.  And it didn't get much better afterwards.  And STILL isn't.

Yep, sucks to be a Russian, geographically anyway.  And Bismarck I think was being envious ... when he thought about American, and not being stuck between France and Russia.  Being stuck between Canada and Mexico has been a lot better.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 07:46:01 AM »
Yep, sucks to be a Russian, geographically anyway.  And Bismarck I think was being envious ... when he thought about American, and not being stuck between France and Russia.  Being stuck between Canada and Mexico has been a lot better.

Yeah, Bismarck envied that the US had weak neighbors to the north and south and oceans on the east and west.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 07:51:52 AM »
Yeah, Bismarck envied that the US had weak neighbors to the north and south and oceans on the east and west.
I've always suspected the reason we're crap at international diplomacy is the lack of obstreperous neighbors.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2017, 07:55:17 AM »
I've always suspected the reason we're crap at international diplomacy is the lack of obstreperous neighbors.

Yeah, who has to negotiate when your the big guy on the block?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2017, 07:57:36 AM »
Yeah, who has to negotiate when your the big guy on the block?
More like we had enough room to not bother the neighbors, and vice versa. We fought one war with Mexico and decided it was more fun to slaughter each other. Canada had England to call on, so a Congress that didn't like spending money on defense approved the treaties we signed and "Fifty-four Forty or Fight!" was quietly dropped.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2017, 08:03:52 AM »
More like we had enough room to not bother the neighbors, and vice versa. We fought one war with Mexico and decided it was more fun to slaughter each other. Canada had England to call on, so a Congress that didn't like spending money on defense approved the treaties we signed and "Fifty-four Forty or Fight!" was quietly dropped.

Plaese do understand that I do not justify the wars of conquest and aqcuisition here or anywhere.  But there is a time to stop and let things be.  Settle where you are, move around as economies allow. 

I don't hate anyone.  Let things settle. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 08:10:44 AM »
Nah, shootin' the shit out of people is way more entertaining. /snarky
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2017, 08:12:02 AM »
Nah, shootin' the shit out of people is way more entertaining. /snarky

Kill them all and let God sort them out...

But which god and to where?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2017, 09:51:57 AM »
Kill them all and let God sort them out...

But which god and to where?
Which ever pays the best.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2017, 10:01:54 AM »
Which ever pays the best.

Allah offers a bunch of virgins.  Hindus offer exciting non red dots.  Christians offer um, "On yer birthday" sex.  Hmmm.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: US History I Didn't Know
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2017, 10:24:08 AM »
Allah offers a bunch of virgins.  Hindus offer exciting non red dots.  Christians offer um, "On yer birthday" sex.  Hmmm.
That's why I pray to Crom.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers