Author Topic: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels  (Read 391 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 09:29:41 PM »
Your strategy in arguing against something often depends on false equivalence. Legalized prostitution would, if anything, reduce sex slavery, not increase it. You think if it were regulated, businesses would be willing to take the risk of being caught allowing an underaged girl to work for them?

Nobody follows laws, not the pimps, not the johns.  Some of you folk have "john" fantasies, hopefully with hot young things (over 21).  You are arguing ... utilitarianism.  If it helps the GPD to grow 10%, by throwing half the people out of work ... it is a net gain in that system.  I would legalize everything ... including police violence, dictatorship, genocide, war ... oh ... we already have that ... just some people claim it isn't so.

People employ illegal aliens all the time, even the government.  Your naivety regarding human behavior is quaint.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 09:30:33 PM »
Agreed on everything but #2.  Some Johns are abusive.

Some humans are abusive ... not all are named John, or frequent houses of prostitution.  Therefore?
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Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2017, 09:32:45 PM »
This.

It's essentially a service job.  Client wants X for money.  Worker supplies X in exchange for money.  As long as it's done in a safe, sane, and consensual way, there's no ethical reason why it shouldn't be done.

But .. but .. capitalism is evil.  How can you support freedom to commit crime?  Are you a criminal? ;-)  Client wants someone murdered in exchange for money with hit man.  That is capitalism at its basic.
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Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2017, 10:13:18 PM »
But .. but .. capitalism is evil.  How can you support freedom to commit crime?  Are you a criminal? ;-)
Well, the goal here is to make it legal.  When you do something that's legal, it's not a crime.  Are you still following me or is this getting too complicated?

Quote
Client wants someone murdered in exchange for money with hit man.
That would clearly violate the safety part.  Also, it would violate the victim's rights (since being dead makes it very difficult to exercise any rights) nor did the victim consent to die.  So basically, a smorgasbord of ethical violations compared to something that isn't at all like that.  I'm not exactly blown away by the comparison and seriously considering retracting my argument.

Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2017, 09:57:30 AM »
Well, the goal here is to make it legal.  When you do something that's legal, it's not a crime.  Are you still following me or is this getting too complicated?

That would clearly violate the safety part.  Also, it would violate the victim's rights (since being dead makes it very difficult to exercise any rights) nor did the victim consent to die.  So basically, a smorgasbord of ethical violations compared to something that isn't at all like that.  I'm not exactly blown away by the comparison and seriously considering retracting my argument.

Fully regulated street sex with older women ... won't be economically popular, just saying.  That isn't how Johns roll, empirically.  So basically you would put the government in partnership with private enterprise (instead of outside of government partnership) and guarantee that there are no under 21 boys/girls and regular OSHA/health inspectors (like they had in Nevada) and guarantee high wages and benefits (not something anyone else gets) so that no exploitation occurs?  And the prostitute can turn down any John they don't want to trick with?  That is even better than the Mustang Ranch.  Except, where is that ranch today ... it was so popular, that there were thousands of them all over Nevada, even today?  Didn't think so.  Not saying that you want to bed an underage prostitute ... just that is what the Johns want.

General philosophical problem.  If choosing what is legal or not is arbitrary ... then why not legalize murder.  Are you anti-killer?  They are an oppressed minority.  Or are you insisting that if there is any murder, they do it for free, because the poor can't afford hit men?  This is similar to making all drugs legal, including the ones that require a prescription ... and the government should give me the drugs for free, because I am too poor to buy them.
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Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2017, 11:07:02 AM »
O.P.Last time I heard prostitution was legal in Nevada, as long as it is done inside a building. Maybe you should find out their rules and how it has worked out for them ;-)

Maybe you should be calling an anti-human trafficking organization Baruch. I havent seen any underage prostitutes walking around in any truck stop I’ve been in or on the street close to my house. (No my name is not John) Once you know the way they dress or act they are easy to spot in the truck stop. Fortunately there are a few organizations working to fight underage activity in the truck stops. So it happens, but it is not common.

If you’re worried about someone buggering the little boys or girls you should probably be doing raids on the houses of the 1% cause that is where you will find the most of that activity
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 12:03:18 PM »
O.P.Last time I heard prostitution was legal in Nevada, as long as it is done inside a building.
Only in a few counties and only certain brothels.  IIRC, illegal prostitution still dwarfs legal prostitution in Nevada.

Quote
Maybe you should find out their rules and how it has worked out for them ;-)
From what I have read, the results are kind of mixed.  While it's safer than illegal prostitution, prostitutes cannot work independently and the brothel owners control working conditions and take a large cut of the earnings.  That article is circa 2007, so things might have improved since then.

Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2017, 03:36:59 PM »
O.P.Last time I heard prostitution was legal in Nevada, as long as it is done inside a building. Maybe you should find out their rules and how it has worked out for them ;-)

Maybe you should be calling an anti-human trafficking organization Baruch. I havent seen any underage prostitutes walking around in any truck stop I’ve been in or on the street close to my house. (No my name is not John) Once you know the way they dress or act they are easy to spot in the truck stop. Fortunately there are a few organizations working to fight underage activity in the truck stops. So it happens, but it is not common.

If you’re worried about someone buggering the little boys or girls you should probably be doing raids on the houses of the 1% cause that is where you will find the most of that activity

Well, if you only go with older prostitutes ... that is your problem ;-)  Human trafficking considers prostitution as part of their spectrum of human criminality.  Sometimes it is to enslave Third World people, there or brought here, so that they can make things, not do tricks.  Do you buy Apple products?  You are involved in human oppression if you buy anything outside of the US, or in the US that is unregulated.  I am typing this on an Apple product ... so I am a criminal.  And if you traffic in or bed prostitutes ... in present law ... you are a criminal too.

This isn't a theist vs atheist thing ... people love to do evil, we crave it ... and virtue signal to ourselves and each other, about how we are "good" people.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 03:39:09 PM by Baruch »
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Offline aitm

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 06:49:18 PM »
If I was running a "house" the customer would be tested for STD's before entering.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2017, 08:06:42 PM »
If I was running a "house" the customer would be tested for STD's before entering.
Yeah.  That's one of the prostitutes' gripes.  They're required to get tested but not the customer, which makes things risky for the prostitute.  One dirty John is a potential career-ender.

But on the other hand, how many customers would be willing to submit to STD testing prior to the encounter?  (That's potential blackmail material right there) If your brothel exercises caution and tests both parties beforehand, but the brothel next door only tests the prostitute, who's bottom line is going to be better at the end of the month?

This is basically a prisoner's dilemma - the ideal scenario is all brothels exercising caution, but any brothel with one less hoop for the customer to jump through has a distinct competitive advantage, so brothels will skimp on testing out of self-interest, with less ideal big-picture consequences.

Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2017, 09:52:24 PM »
If I was running a "house" the customer would be tested for STD's before entering.

Also check his credit ... or cash.  I don't trust any johns.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2017, 09:53:48 PM »
Yeah.  That's one of the prostitutes' gripes.  They're required to get tested but not the customer, which makes things risky for the prostitute.  One dirty John is a potential career-ender.

But on the other hand, how many customers would be willing to submit to STD testing prior to the encounter?  (That's potential blackmail material right there) If your brothel exercises caution and tests both parties beforehand, but the brothel next door only tests the prostitute, who's bottom line is going to be better at the end of the month?

This is basically a prisoner's dilemma - the ideal scenario is all brothels exercising caution, but any brothel with one less hoop for the customer to jump through has a distinct competitive advantage, so brothels will skimp on testing out of self-interest, with less ideal big-picture consequences.

Not just an STD check for the johns, but also a sanity check ;-)  And if regulation can be got around ... why call for regulated prostitution, if legalism is ineffective anyway?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 03:18:14 AM »
This.

It's essentially a service job.  Client wants X for money.  Worker supplies X in exchange for money.  As long as it's done in a safe, sane, and consensual way, there's no ethical reason why it shouldn't be done.

If it is truly consensual (and I doubt that in most cases), it could be legitimized. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 10:39:24 PM »
If it is truly consensual (and I doubt that in most cases), it could be legitimized.

Consent?  Even in marriage ... we don't know the "state of mind" of either party.  Consent is like finding a black cat in a room with no light.  Marriage is consensual prostitution ... by both parties.  But with some legal protections for the wife, not for the husband.
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Re: Prostitution should be legalized in brothels
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 11:47:08 PM »
The AIDS test can be 99% accurately done in less than 2 min. The rest can be dealt with by medical treatment. STDs that are bacteria can be treated in 2 or 3 weeks. Those that are viruses I think all have vaccines.

For the sake of argument how long would it take to do all the tests, if the brothel had a lab in the backroom?🤔

Who is going to make sure they are paying their taxes?
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.