How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist

Started by Shiranu, October 13, 2017, 09:26:47 PM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on October 22, 2017, 09:51:23 PM
Do you believe that evolution has a purpose, which in this case is to produce pacifist atheist sentients, for example.  By Manifest Destiny ... I mean that people as a whole are directed by biology to some particular end (as opposed to random mutation).
I find it difficult to understand why you ask that question.  I have said time and again, that nature, biology, evolution has no 'purpose'; it just is.  Humans have evolved to this point because they, as a species, been the fittest for whatever environment they found themselves in.  That does not assure the human species that the species will continue on into the future.  Random mutation is what evolution is.  If the mutation makes it easier for the organism to to survive, then that mutation will be passed on.  If not, the the mutation will stop.  No purpose in any of it.  Only you, or me, can supply purpose--if we want.  As you describe Manifest Destiny, it is a fiction.  Biology does not direct anybody to do anything. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 22, 2017, 10:33:27 PM
I find it difficult to understand why you ask that question.  I have said time and again, that nature, biology, evolution has no 'purpose'; it just is.  Humans have evolved to this point because they, as a species, been the fittest for whatever environment they found themselves in.  That does not assure the human species that the species will continue on into the future.  Random mutation is what evolution is.  If the mutation makes it easier for the organism to to survive, then that mutation will be passed on.  If not, the the mutation will stop.  No purpose in any of it.  Only you, or me, can supply purpose--if we want.  As you describe Manifest Destiny, it is a fiction.  Biology does not direct anybody to do anything.

Thank you for your patience.  I need reminding.

I don't agree that people are good by nature ... or bad by nature.  Rhetorically, I will push back against Polyanna-ism.  And I simply agree that teleology (Aristotle) is simply wrong .. so there is no inevitable anything as it is commonly used in politics or religion.  It is true, that it is highly likely, that if you hit your thumb with a hammer, it will hurt (but there are rare people who have lost feeling (Biblical leprosy)).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on October 22, 2017, 11:38:10 PM
Thank you for your patience.  I need reminding.

I don't agree that people are good by nature ... or bad by nature.  Rhetorically, I will push back against Polyanna-ism.  And I simply agree that teleology (Aristotle) is simply wrong .. so there is no inevitable anything as it is commonly used in politics or religion.  It is true, that it is highly likely, that if you hit your thumb with a hammer, it will hurt (but there are rare people who have lost feeling (Biblical leprosy)).
I will cop to a touch of polyanna-ism (Played Polyanna quite a bit as a kid--sort of like Sorry).  But I say people are mostly and usually good simply because that is an evolutionary trait.  What the group defines as good is what is accepted by most as good as well.  So, most do good because it is good for the group.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on October 21, 2017, 06:11:57 AM
@cavevear. Why am I wacko? Because I’m good person? Because I loath and abhor discrimination? Because I do not condone prejudice and speak out against it ? because I’m not a hypocrite ?  because I do not post a flagrantly false account about wikipedia take on surat al fatiha like you ?  go ahead , demonize me , call me names ,  elect London mayor who recites surat al fatiha 17 times a day , crucify me like you did to Jesus, do what you may but I will never be dissuaded from fighting injustice .

Where is barouch ? come here barouch I want to talk to you. You scramble cavebear brain and others  have to deal with it. Fix that shit now .

the reason why I talk to barouch because he is my kin. Arabs and jews like to get on each other nerves .we are blood.  .with barouch I have to defer to him on account of his age . there is no victory in defeating my kin

if we’re going to have London mayor who believes and recites hate quran then I demand we have a KKK mayor with a swastika tattooed on his forehead reciting something something provided its full of hate inciting speech ..

Wow, you really have some issues.

First, you seem "whacko" by style and content.

Second, I doubt that there was a "Jesus" who was crucified.

Third, "Å«rat al-Fātiḥah (Arabic: سُÙ'ورَةُ اÙ,,Ù'فَاتِحَة‎‎) is the first chapter (surah) of the Quran. Its seven verses (ayat) are a prayer for the guidance, lordship and mercy of God."  and I think that is utter nonsense but your references to it prove your religious fanaticism.

Fourth.  You STILL can't spell "Baruch". LOL!

Fifth, Baruch doesn't scramble my brain anytime.  I understand where he is coming from and it just doesn't impress me.  I think he is almost as nuts as you are.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

pr126

Cavebear wrote:
QuoteSecond, I doubt that there was a "Jesus" who was crucified.

Not crucified according to the Quran.

Quran 4:157
Yusuf Ali: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

pr126

The mis-spelling of names by Ibn Kaldhun is deliberate.
A feature, not a bug. :)

Cavebear

Quote from: pr126 on October 23, 2017, 04:17:17 AM
Cavebear wrote:
Not crucified according to the Quran.

Quran 4:157
Yusuf Ali: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Every religion has it's differences in the holy texts.  That the derivative quran varies from the christian one is no big surprise.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Blackleaf

Quote from: pr126 on October 23, 2017, 04:17:17 AM
Cavebear wrote:
Not crucified according to the Quran.

Quran 4:157
Yusuf Ali: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

I wonder why Muslims would try to claim that Jesus death was just an illusion. Prophets have been killed before. That's nothing out of the ordinary. Why go out of the way to say that it only appeared that Jesus was nailed to a cross to bleed to death, that it was only an elaborate magic trick?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

pr126

#113
Why would Allah need to deceive people anyway?

I think this verse is to discredit Christianity.
If Jesus was not crucified, no resurrection, no redemption, then what is the point?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 23, 2017, 12:07:28 AM
I will cop to a touch of polyanna-ism (Played Polyanna quite a bit as a kid--sort of like Sorry).  But I say people are mostly and usually good simply because that is an evolutionary trait.  What the group defines as good is what is accepted by most as good as well.  So, most do good because it is good for the group.

Thank you Herr Himmler (I don't mean you, just someone as group relativist as you).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on October 23, 2017, 04:20:54 AM
Every religion has it's differences in the holy texts.  That the derivative quran varies from the christian one is no big surprise.

Islam couldn't say the truth .. that there is no Moses and no Jesus, and yet add them as predecessors to Muhammad.  A Catch 22 for them.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Blackleaf on October 23, 2017, 11:26:06 AM
I wonder why Muslims would try to claim that Jesus death was just an illusion. Prophets have been killed before. That's nothing out of the ordinary. Why go out of the way to say that it only appeared that Jesus was nailed to a cross to bleed to death, that it was only an elaborate magic trick?

The early Quran didn't even have vowels.  It was really hard to show "sarc" in Arabic.  In fact, they usually kill you for it ;-(  Consider that Allah (the author) may have been having a bit of a jibe at the ridiculous Christians of Muhammad's time, who were just functionaries of the Roman court.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: pr126 on October 23, 2017, 11:55:37 AM
Why would Allah need to deceive people anyway?

I think this verse is to discredit Christianity.
If Jesus was not crucified, no resurrection, no redemption, then what is the point?

They were turning Paul on himself.  They would never have agreed with Paul, because Paul was pro-Roman.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2017, 10:25:10 PM
They were turning Paul on himself.  They would never have agreed with Paul, because Paul was pro-Roman.

Assuming there was a Paul, of course. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on October 27, 2017, 08:20:11 AM
Assuming there was a Paul, of course.

A Paul perhaps, but not as he was edited by the Church later.  But if we want to get completely skeptical of anything before 10/2/2017 ... I am game.

There seems, thru the edited screeds, a unified personality speaking to a set of related communities.  That is as much as one can tell.  And as long as one doesn't claim any miracles, then it is historically plausible.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.