How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist

[Baruch]

You claim to know Americans, but don't know the local head of the KKK is called a Grand Dragon?  My mother's father was KKK, and his father before them.  But now they wear normal clothing, not bed sheets, but they still carry guns.  But in the South, KKK and Freemasons were close.  The KKK organization was modeled on the Freemasons, but for uneducated people.  Freemasons are educated people.  Another grandfather, he was a Shriner ... a top Freemason ... he was the grandfather I knew.  He arranged my initiation into their youth group, DeMolay ... named after the last Grand Master of the Templars.  He went to the Middle East in WW II.  Fought in Oran Algeria, then over to Tunisia.  Got a swimming lesson from the Fuhrer between Tunis and Alexandria.  Got rescued, went on to Bombay India, then on to Basra Iraq.  Army Corp of Engineers.  He helped build infrastructure there to help the British occupy Iraq during the war years.  The government there had gotten too friendly with the Axis.  Then on up to Tehran (where the Shah eventually was too friendly with the Axis), to help build infrastructure, to support the Southern supply line into the Soviet Union.  He was there during the Tehran conference.  The war ended, he came home.  Many years later he is doing his exercise walk, he gets friendly with another guy his age.  They talk over old times.  He says to the other guy "I fought for Patton" ... the other guy sheepishly says ... "I fought for Rommel".  They stopped being friends ;-(  Ululate with me over this grandfather and his family ... a real man, like all my grandfathers, even the one in the KKK.

[Munch]

Baruch has KKK blood in him!!


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[Mike Cl]

.. a real man, like all my grandfathers, even the one in the KKK.

What is a 'real' man??  I would suggest that any man (or woman) who is/was in the KKK are not 'real' men.

[Baruch]

What is a 'real' man??  I would suggest that any man (or woman) who is/was in the KKK are not 'real' men.

Do you deny that men (on any side) who fought in the wars of the 20th century, are real men?  I know it is popular to judge people ... how is that not like the KKK?  Unless we walk a mile in their shoes ... you and I know nothing.

[Baruch]

Baruch has KKK blood in him!!


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Blood by adoption.  But I honor all ancestors.  I don't judge them.

[Mike Cl]

Do you deny that men (on any side) who fought in the wars of the 20th century, are real men?  I know it is popular to judge people ... how is that not like the KKK?  Unless we walk a mile in their shoes ... you and I know nothing.

I don't know what you define as a 'real' man.  When you define it, I may agree, I may not. 

"Unless we walk a mile in their shoes....you know nothing."  Bullshit! 

[Baruch]

I don't know what you define as a 'real' man.  When you define it, I may agree, I may not. 

"Unless we walk a mile in their shoes....you know nothing."  Bullshit!

OK ... virtue signaling then?

[Mike Cl]

OK ... virtue signaling then?

No--that's what you are so good at.  You like to think you are clever and can hide you constant virtue signaling in your verbose verbiage. I just asked you to explain what it is you mean.  And to call you on your wonderful old trite saying.

[Baruch]

No--that's what you are so good at.  You like to think you are clever and can hide you constant virtue signaling in your verbose verbiage. I just asked you to explain what it is you mean.  And to call you on your wonderful old trite saying.

Really?  I explained the reality behind my ancestors ... even if it isn't pretty.  I constantly emphasize that I am by nature a criminal (by being human) ... no morality, no ethics, no legality.  In nature, there are none of those things.  I do what I want, whether people approve or not, I say what I want, whether people approve or not.  Morality, ethics or legality have nothing to do with it.

Real men live real lives ... they don't hide under the bed.  Though I have sympathy with those who are repelled by the human condition.  We are born without being asked, we are raised by people we didn't choose, we live in a society that we didn't design ... and cope with that as best we can.  Some of us complain about that more than others ;-)

So if you had been born in the White South in 1800, do you really think you would have been a Progressive?  If you have been an African-American in the Dark South in 1800, do you think you would have fled your condition?  Those who could escape via the Underground Railroad, did so.  Those who couldn't had to bear their lot as best they could.

The idea that any people at any time and place, have rights, is American patriotic propaganda, courtesy of the ABA.  Same as mom and apple pie.  Politics is all lies.  And lying is very necessary (see Plato's Republic or Machiavelli's The Prince).  Different people in different times and places, make different decisions.  That is a fact.  Whether you or I approve (because we imagine, had it been us, we would have chosen differently) doesn't matter.

[Mike Cl]

Really?  I explained the reality behind my ancestors ... even if it isn't pretty.  I constantly emphasize that I am by nature a criminal (by being human) ... no morality, no ethics, no legality.  In nature, there are none of those things.  I do what I want, whether people approve or not, I say what I want, whether people approve or not.  Morality, ethics or legality have nothing to do with it.

Real men live real lives ... they don't hide under the bed.  Though I have sympathy with those who are repelled by the human condition.  We are born without being asked, we are raised by people we didn't choose, we live in a society that we didn't design ... and cope with that as best we can.  Some of us complain about that more than others ;-)

So if you had been born in the White South in 1800, do you really think you would have been a Progressive?  If you have been an African-American in the Dark South in 1800, do you think you would have fled your condition?  Those who could escape via the Underground Railroad, did so.  Those who couldn't had to bear their lot as best they could.

The idea that any people at any time and place, have rights, is American patriotic propaganda, courtesy of the ABA.  Same as mom and apple pie.  Politics is all lies.  And lying is very necessary (see Plato's Republic or Machiavelli's The Prince).  Different people in different times and places, make different decisions.  That is a fact.  Whether you or I approve (because we imagine, had it been us, we would have chosen differently) doesn't matter.

I agree with most of what you say.  Except for me, I have to ask where change comes from, then.  If a society dictates how one thinks about morality, ethics, actions and even thoughts (and I think that is true to a huge extent), where does change come from?  One of the things a good historian is the effort they give to putting themselves into the 'shoes' of another society or era.  Hard to do.  What would I do in any other society than the one I find myself now?  Who knows.  What would I have done if I had had to go to Nam and seen combat?  Who knows (but I know that it would not have been pretty, even if I had lived). 

I don't really subscribe to 'real' men or women.  They are as they are.  All are real--or as 'real' (whatever that is) as they can be.  Even those who hide under the bed are 'real'--we don't know what is going on in their head.  So that term for me is simply meaningless. 

[Baruch]

Change comes from "we imagine a better world or a worse world, and work to make it happen" ... except for two things "imagine a worse world" and nobody agrees on what better or worse mean (it is cultural).  History is a random walk, like a spore in water being tossed about by molecular motion.  "Progress" involves assumed ideas that are not valid ... secularly speaking ... people are individually good (false) and that there is a larger purpose (manifest destiny).

[Mike Cl]

Change comes from "we imagine a better world or a worse world, and work to make it happen" ... except for two things "imagine a worse world" and nobody agrees on what better or worse mean (it is cultural).  History is a random walk, like a spore in water being tossed about by molecular motion.  "Progress" involves assumed ideas that are not valid ... secularly speaking ... people are individually good (false) and that there is a larger purpose (manifest destiny).

That is mostly double talk.  Did you invent Newspeak????

[Baruch]

That is mostly double talk.  Did you invent Newspeak????

You will have to outline your point, for me to understand it.  I am more charitable to you in this case.

Do you believe in some form of Manifest Destiny (not necessarily the American version)?  Simple yes or no.

Do you believe that people, individually, as a default or natural position, are good?  Simple yes or no.

[Mike Cl]

You will have to outline your point, for me to understand it.  I am more charitable to you in this case.

Do you believe in some form of Manifest Destiny (not necessarily the American version)?  Simple yes or no.

Do you believe that people, individually, as a default or natural position, are good?  Simple yes or no.

Baruch, you are often charitable; you are often obtuse.  You seem to like to use a word or phrase you do not define so you can use it in odd ways.  What do you mean by 'Manifest Destiny'?

As for the default or natural position of individuals--that is good. (And as you know there is no simple answer for this, yea or nay.)

[Baruch]

Baruch, you are often charitable; you are often obtuse.  You seem to like to use a word or phrase you do not define so you can use it in odd ways.  What do you mean by 'Manifest Destiny'?

As for the default or natural position of individuals--that is good. (And as you know there is no simple answer for this, yea or nay.)

Do you believe that evolution has a purpose, which in this case is to produce pacifist atheist sentients, for example.  By Manifest Destiny ... I mean that people as a whole are directed by biology to some particular end (as opposed to random mutation).