Author Topic: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist  (Read 1065 times)

Offline pr126

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 01:48:55 AM »
Great, now you are just going to repeat what I said and think that proves you right.

You never cease to amaze.

Great, now you are just going to repeat what I said and think that proves you right.

You are so predictable.
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 01:55:24 AM »
I wish you the best of luck with that.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 02:19:36 AM by Shiranu »
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2017, 02:33:25 AM »
The ideology that I am criticizing thinks of me as sub human because of not being one of them.
It is in their scriptures.
But according to you, that is racist and bigoted.


Najis
Quote
The following ten things are essentially najis:
Urine
Faeces
Semen
Dead body
Blood
Dog
Pig
Kafir =  Non Muslims
Alcoholic liquors
The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.






« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 04:52:08 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2017, 05:04:46 AM »
Yes, according to me that IS bigoted!

Thankfully, most Muslims don't practice that. And by most, I mean the overwhelming majority in the world, particularly so in the West. The one's who do believe that believe the exact same about their fellow Muslims as well though, so it seems like religion isn't the important factor now, is it? If they consider fellow Muslims as sub-human to the point they would murder them for not being "Muslim enough", to the point they would found their own renegade state that commits unspeakable crimes against their brothers and sisters... then how can we sit around and pretend that it is just a matter of them vs us?

These are sick, sick people... but you want to condemn all the healthy as well, because you are a coward who has read so much about how they are out to get you that you don't realise that "they" is just a snapshot taken of a people you otherwise never see, never interact with, never know. When you meet them in the street, in the bus, at your workplace... are they anything at all like this image you have sold for year after year? No, because the overwhelming majority, particularly here, are absolutely normal people who just are trying to live their life in peace.

The root causes of Muslim violence against the West is located in history. I understand you were forced to leave what your state called a school, but you have focused so much on one area that you have ignored the bigger picture. We destabilized the Middle East. We radicalized it. We trained and armed terrorists to do our dirty work for us, and lo-and-behold a bunch of killers didn't have loyalty to us. We colonized and exploited the region for generations, some of whom who had parents who lived in Imperial territories and many living, and many in power, who fought for their independence from American and British backed puppet rulers and dictators. We have many young adults who grew up knowing only American and Allied occupation of their country. We back a country that commits human rights violations in occupied territory as they send out settlers to steal land. Politically, to expect anything other than violence in return is borderline insanity. We poked, then beat, then gassed, bombed, occupied, tortured the bees nest, and now we are getting stung. But returning hatred and violence will not solve anything, and only continue the cycle.

Even religiously, we continue to provoke them through our continued funding of the Saudi royal family and their brand of Wahabist, Orthodox Islam. You say Islam is monolithic and carved in stone, incapable of reform, and yet we have seen reform time and time again throughout it's history; the peaceful living of Iberians, Muslims and Jews in Spain, the Jewish settlements in Africa and the Middle East for hundreds of years, the Dark Ages, and so on and so forth. These were eras when moderate Islam flourished, and the Islamic world flourished. It is all cyclical; moderate Islam is defeated by politics, radical Islam is defeated by humanity. We are just watching one of the more particularly reactive ticks of the cycle, thanks to particularly momentous political events. And Christianity is playing a large part in that as well. 

Politics and religion is inseparable, even to this day in the West. How much policy has been done based on the Jewish claim to the Holy Land, how many millions of people hurt, because Christians love the romantic ideal of giving God's people their promised land? How much violence against Muslims has been committed because they are foreigners and are threatening our Christian moral way of life (even though our Christian moral way of life is exactly the same as theirs in regards to everything important; fighting non-believers, killing gays, hating women... the fun stuff)?

When you focus on religion, you focus on the academic. It is politicians, secular actions, tangible actions, that lead to violent actions. Religion can play it's role, and play it very well, but at the end of the day it is just a tool in the hands of evil people, or a tool in the hands of the good. It is through action, and being at peace instead of in constant fear is one of those actions, that we foster a community, a government, and a culture that realises the importance of it's secular actions and thinks carefully about them... rather than a culture that instantly jumps on what ever the en vogue fear is and creates a government that abuses it's people, kills scary foreigners and destroys more lives and thus continuing the cycle. That is how we got Trump, Brexit, Geerters... Bush Jr., Sadam Hussein, Gaddafi... Vietnam, Korea, the Cold War... the World Wars, and further and further back. It's all a pendulum of secular actions creating monsters who take politics, religion, their obsession with guns and violence, World of Warcraft too far.

There will always be people born who are simply sick in the head and monsters, and we must face them immediately and resoundingly. But we have to break this cycle, and that will never happen when we are constantly at each others throats. If they are so backwards, then leave them the fuck alone and let them develop their way up (or better yet, gently invest in education and higher standards of living in the area). If we stop rubbing salt in the wound, it might stop reopening, and if we stop beating the bee hive with a stick expecting the bees to suddenly stop stinging us, we might find ourselves in a lot less pain.
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2017, 05:56:35 AM »
TL;DR.

Yes, I know the drill. #NOTALLMUSLIMS.

Here is an analogy.

I have a bowl of M&Ms. A few of them are coated with deadly poison. The rest is just fine.
Go on, take a handful.
Enjoy.
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2017, 07:27:25 AM »
Race exists because people made it out to exist so it exists.

The Irish were assaulted by racists back then.

White people that are racist against other white people exists

Offline Baruch

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2017, 08:59:57 AM »
Race exists because people made it out to exist so it exists.

The Irish were assaulted by racists back then.

White people that are racist against other white people exists

Special pleading says ... my oppression is real, your oppression isn't real.  This is a political system where the hierarchy is inverted, inverted totalitarianism ... where your merit is based on anti-elitism.  A peasant revolt where the peasant is defined by how much society oppresses him.  Normal totalitarianism has the "swells" at the top.  But what drives both forms is ... hate your neighbor, as an expression of self-hate.  Human society isn't based on love, but hate ... not peace, but war.  But people find this observation incredible, because they don't see people running down the street every day everywhere raping and murdering each other (though it happens some times in some places).  Our true nature? ... breaks out here and there, now and again.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 09:05:44 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline pr126

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2017, 09:53:07 AM »
But there is good news.
White people have stopped reproducing. At least here in Europe.
When there are no more white people on the planet, there will not be any racism anymore.

And that is a good thing.

Here is Sally from the DNC, helping to elect Trump.

My job is to shut white people down.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 10:38:10 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2017, 10:45:09 AM »
Race exists because people made it out to exist so it exists.

Come now, think of that for a minute.  Does popular equate to true?  At one point, most thought the world to be flat.  Did that make it so--the world was flat because people made it out to be?  At one time most thought sickness came from demons.  Did that mean that germs did not exist because people made it out that demons existed?  I could go on--but I think you get my point.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2017, 10:51:11 AM »
People seem to be naturally skeptical of outsiders. Italians were mainly white too, but because some Italians were mobsters, it was assumed all were dangerous. I recall one couple was executed without evidence because, according to the judge, "They're Italian. They did something." The problem with the word "racism" is that no one ever admits to being racist. They always think they're justified somehow. Even the leader of the KKK denies being racist.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2017, 12:16:08 PM »
I have long wondered why racism is so ingrained and never seems to go away.  Could it be that it is part of our evolutionary success as a species?  I would imagine that when Lucy (you know, a couple of million years ago, or so) was roaming around that all outsiders had to be the enemy; that 'us vs them' was very, very real and practical, and the only way to survive?  (And only take in a 'them' every now and again to keep the gene pool fresh)  I imagine that that attitude had to be basal for the groups to survive--and it was just about ingrained from the start.  So, to change our racism, we have to change the basal attitude toward them--and that takes so very long.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2017, 01:30:29 PM »
I have long wondered why racism is so ingrained and never seems to go away.  Could it be that it is part of our evolutionary success as a species?
Tribalism.  Anyone but the members of your tribe is a potential threat.  Yet despite these mutual misgivings, tribes started trading and formed alliances, greatly benefiting each other and cutting down on violence between tribes.  But always, there was distrust brewing below the surface...

A stranger may be a threat or a stranger may be an asset.  Which conclusion should we reach?  Millennia later and we still can't make up our minds.

Offline Baruch

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2017, 01:40:09 PM »
But there is good news.
White people have stopped reproducing. At least here in Europe.
When there are no more white people on the planet, there will not be any racism anymore.

And that is a good thing.

Here is Sally from the DNC, helping to elect Trump.

My job is to shut white people down.

Unfortunately, just because some of your ancestors may be been slaves, that doesn't make you a good person.  People aren't evil by skin color, but neither are they virtuous.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2017, 01:41:06 PM »
Come now, think of that for a minute.  Does popular equate to true?  At one point, most thought the world to be flat.  Did that make it so--the world was flat because people made it out to be?  At one time most thought sickness came from demons.  Did that mean that germs did not exist because people made it out that demons existed?  I could go on--but I think you get my point.

In psychology, belief makes it true, and popular makes it cultural.  Ignore that at your peril, you Vulcan you.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: How the Irish Prove Racism Against Muslims Exist
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2017, 01:42:43 PM »
I have long wondered why racism is so ingrained and never seems to go away.  Could it be that it is part of our evolutionary success as a species?  I would imagine that when Lucy (you know, a couple of million years ago, or so) was roaming around that all outsiders had to be the enemy; that 'us vs them' was very, very real and practical, and the only way to survive?  (And only take in a 'them' every now and again to keep the gene pool fresh)  I imagine that that attitude had to be basal for the groups to survive--and it was just about ingrained from the start.  So, to change our racism, we have to change the basal attitude toward them--and that takes so very long.

it is a low level survival skill.  But cooperation with outsiders is a higher level survival skill.  This is true in chimpanzee troops too.
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