Author Topic: Genuinely curious  (Read 356 times)

Offline GrinningYMIR (OP)

Genuinely curious
« on: October 12, 2017, 07:53:28 AM »
So as some of you may have heard, a woman was shot and killed after she ran over a police officer and that officers partner proceeded to put 3 into her chest.

Though some articles are more slanted than others the general facts are
-she crashed into a wall/object near a bunch of people
-clearly and heavily inebriated
-had a guy with her
-police attempted to arrest her
-something happens, she panics?
-she attempts to flee and in doing so runs over one of the arresting officers
-remaining officer proceeds to shoot her 3 times, eventually proving fatal
-she was in college and by some accounts wanted to be a lawyer
-her father thus far isn't railing against the system, but is heartbroken about his daughter being killed. By some accounts saying that he wished she had never been drinking.
-she was black

By questions are
Was this woman acting aggressively with intent to harm, panicking and attempting to flee, were the cops justified in opening fire according to the law, does the color of her skin matter as much as her running into a cop?

My own opinion: she panicked and did something stupid and then did even more stupid by running over a cop, as the other one on duty you have to assume intent to harm/kill especially with other civilians nearby. And her skin does not matter as much as being bit by a car used as a deadly weapon.
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 10:05:10 AM »
Whatever the reasons everybody had this is a great case of escalation-by-gun.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Munch

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 11:10:27 AM »
Honestly, giving the state of things in america with the joy happy gun toting cops and easy to access firearms the average citizen can get ahold of, its no wonder it forms the kind of mindset people like this woman had, and fear it creates. Its pretty insane some of the stories coming out of america related to gun crimes and the fact police have no restraint when holding one.

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 11:37:02 AM »
Honestly, giving the state of things in america with the joy happy gun toting cops and easy to access firearms the average citizen can get ahold of, its no wonder it forms the kind of mindset people like this woman had, and fear it creates. Its pretty insane some of the stories coming out of america related to gun crimes and the fact police have no restraint when holding one.
The best figures I've seen say you have a 1/110,000,000 chance of being shot by a police officer on any given day. Other figures show that 3% of Americans own 126,000,000 guns, collectively. That's half of all guns in America. Most Americans don't own a gun. Most Americans who own a gun own just one.

So, Americans can't be characterized by sweeping generalizations, not even American cops.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 12:58:36 PM »
This was similar to the woman in Washington DC, with the baby in the back seat, who tried to ... accidentally or deliberately ... drive into the WH driveway, past the armed guards.  Did she panic?  What was her intent?  We will never know.  She was Black and the WH guards shot her dead, but fortunately missed her baby.

I have only been in one incident (I wasn't driving) where we tried to elude the police.  We did.  But my buddy from HS scared the shit out of me.  No telling what the cop would have done if he/she had caught us.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 04:59:25 AM »
So as some of you may have heard, a woman was shot and killed after she ran over a police officer and that officers partner proceeded to put 3 into her chest.

Though some articles are more slanted than others the general facts are
-she crashed into a wall/object near a bunch of people
-clearly and heavily inebriated
-had a guy with her
-police attempted to arrest her
-something happens, she panics?
-she attempts to flee and in doing so runs over one of the arresting officers
-remaining officer proceeds to shoot her 3 times, eventually proving fatal
-she was in college and by some accounts wanted to be a lawyer
-her father thus far isn't railing against the system, but is heartbroken about his daughter being killed. By some accounts saying that he wished she had never been drinking.
-she was black

By questions are
Was this woman acting aggressively with intent to harm, panicking and attempting to flee, were the cops justified in opening fire according to the law, does the color of her skin matter as much as her running into a cop?

My own opinion: she panicked and did something stupid and then did even more stupid by running over a cop, as the other one on duty you have to assume intent to harm/kill especially with other civilians nearby. And her skin does not matter as much as being bit by a car used as a deadly weapon.

The police rule is shoot first and ask questions later.  And guess who gets to ask the questions?  They think they are 007 with license to kill.

It has to stop.  And it will only stop when some murderous police get hauled off to jail for their crimes.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 07:35:50 AM »
The police rule is shoot first and ask questions later.  And guess who gets to ask the questions?  They think they are 007 with license to kill.

It has to stop.  And it will only stop when some murderous police get hauled off to jail for their crimes.

I agree.  I don't support rogue cops, or rogue police departments.  Alas, that is what we got.  And more White folk are killed by cops than colored folk (yes, the percentage is disproportionate ... so we need to have cops kill more White folk to compensate).
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 08:00:45 AM »
I agree.  I don't support rogue cops, or rogue police departments.  Alas, that is what we got.  And more White folk are killed by cops than colored folk (yes, the percentage is disproportionate ... so we need to have cops kill more White folk to compensate).

And the numbers are wrong by definition.  More whites are killed, but not innocent ones.  It is a false equivalency to compare a bank robber killed in a firefight with a black guy sitting in a car.  Don't be insultingly stupid about that.  There is a difference between "arrested while white" and "shot for being black".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline GrinningYMIR (OP)

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »
So just to be clear, you're saying that they should have not fired on her after she ran over a cop and was attempting to flee an arrest at the same time while inebriated and endangering civilian lives?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline Cavebear

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 09:49:58 AM »
So just to be clear, you're saying that they should have not fired on her after she ran over a cop and was attempting to flee an arrest at the same time while inebriated and endangering civilian lives?

I'm saying that MOST examples show extreme lethal police prejudice.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline GrinningYMIR (OP)

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 10:05:15 AM »
I'm saying that MOST examples show extreme lethal police prejudice.

Yes but the example provided I was asking opinions on this specific event, not cop shootings in general. In this specific event, was it warranted? That was the question
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline Cavebear

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 10:13:03 AM »
Yes but the example provided I was asking opinions on this specific event, not cop shootings in general. In this specific event, was it warranted? That was the question

A specific event among many others means little.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline GrinningYMIR (OP)

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 10:46:56 AM »
So you refuse to answer the question at hand and instead return to blanket covering everything?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline Cavebear

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 10:49:17 AM »
So you refuse to answer the question at hand and instead return to blanket covering everything?

Your focus on one event matters little.  You are using it for a purpose I do not share.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline GrinningYMIR (OP)

Re: Genuinely curious
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 10:56:55 AM »
So you'd rather go to an anti cop argument rather then address specifically what this post is about. Just to be clear. You're on the anti cop arguement to the point where you refuse to discuss or perhaps even fathom an event where a police officer is warranted or forced to use wounding or deadly force.
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit