Author Topic: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op  (Read 380 times)

Offline Baruch

Im sure there are sci-fi books about the Jews being the majority religion on Earth or some other planet.   Whoppee.

Which would be interesting to discuss the alt-Earth.  But then you go dumb about "ride to work every day on a camel".

Some prefer ancient BS, others prefer futuristic BS.  I live in the present.  Nothing in the Bible applies to me ... or any other Jew.  Most Jews are secular/atheists.
שלום

Biblical correction is rather severe.  I am gentle.  Like Jesus, my yoke (yoga) is light.  Right now there is only one youth posting here, so not many in need of correction that fit that profile.  Mostly ape men in need of a banana.

Nice to be able to laugh on occasions.

It is an atheist site after all.

Regards
DL

As an atheist, I don't have a 'belief system'.  Belief does not require any reasoning.  And I don't have an ideology; at least not in the way I think you mean it.  You seem to be saying that everybody believes something.  Atheists are non-believers.  Plus, atheists are not a monolithic; we are united in only one thing--we do not believe in nor think any god(s) exist or have existed. 

With the above in mind, my personal code of conduct is controlled by a combo of 'do unto others'/'first do no harm'.  Do I combat evil?  Yeah, I hope so.   

Not to get into too much semantics but I think you confuse faith and belief. Faith to me does not take reasoning but belief in something does as it has to get past your reality filters.

I also see atheism as an ideology or  belief system. Yours, to me, as you say includes non-belief in any God. Other than those semantic definition issue, we have no argument.

I like that you follow the Golden rule but would point out that when you correct a theist, and he takes your correction, you in a sense do harm to his mind as he now has to adjust his thinking.

I see the good in that and he should as well but it will hurt for a bit before he ses your tough love for the good that it is.

Do not stop though.

I hope you do that elsewhere as here you might not have much access to those who need correcting the most.

Regards
DL   


But to publicly oppose this ideology/religion is forbidden all over the world.

You can try, and suffer the consequences.

That is how weak are the non-Muslims while Islam is gaining strength globally.
Deny it all you want, it will not change reality.


You know Islam well.

There are some Muslim countries that allow criticism but mostly where Muslims are not the majority. In those, they tend to kill apostates.

They are gaining in some countries but also losing in places like China and Myanmar.

I think that many countries are getting fed up with them though which is unfortunately helping right wing governments get elected into power. I am more left wing and do not like that trend. Countries are getting Trumped, so to speak.

Regards
DL

What is 'evil'?  Could you define it, so I can know if I'd oppose it. 
In so far as ... religion (or politics) involve the slavery over people, or over people's minds ... it is evil.  Judaism means .. opposition to slavery.  That is why Gentiles always have to kill us.  Of course, that doesn't prevent individual Jews from being evil.  Diaspora Judaism dodged evil, only because it was lacking in political power.

We Gnostic oppose both organized religion as well as the idol worshiping religions as they cause the most trouble for people.

Perhaps you can confirm that Israel means to struggle both for and against God.

Also, do you see Karaite Jews as the highest form of Jews struggling against God, as I think they allow a Rabbi to actually overrule God himself when necessary?

I think that they and early Gnostic Christians were calling themselves Chrestians before Christianity usurped their God and holy books and made them theirs.

Can you tell I hunger for a historian?

Regards
DL

What is 'evil'?  Could you define it, so I can know if I'd oppose it. 

In this case, let's say homophobia, misogyny and a slave mentality.

Regards
DL

Offline Baruch

"Perhaps you can confirm that Israel means to struggle both for and against God." ... of course that is true ;-)

"Also, do you see Karaite Jews as the highest form of Jews struggling against God, as I think they allow a Rabbi to actually overrule God himself when necessary?" ... I have a divided opinion.  Karaite Jews aren't very relevant today, compared to 1100 years ago.  The most relevant are secular/atheist Jews.  Next are the Orthodox Jews.  I can't see how to sort that out, who is "most struggling" .. I would have to go with the secular/atheist Jews ... but mostly against, not for G-d.
שלום

"Perhaps you can confirm that Israel means to struggle both for and against God." ... of course that is true ;-)

"Also, do you see Karaite Jews as the highest form of Jews struggling against God, as I think they allow a Rabbi to actually overrule God himself when necessary?" ... I have a divided opinion.  Karaite Jews aren't very relevant today, compared to 1100 years ago.  The most relevant are secular/atheist Jews.  Next are the Orthodox Jews.  I can't see how to sort that out, who is "most struggling" .. I would have to go with the secular/atheist Jews ... but mostly against, not for G-d.

Thanks much. The way I see things, the Jews were on their way to a rather good ideology before Christianity took over and screwed things up.

Gnostic Christianity is quite close to secular and Karaite Jews and perhaps that explains why some say that the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians.

The Cathars might have been bang on in calling their Bishops Parfait. That French translates to perfect in English.

I am a Parfait WIP. ;-)

Regards
DL

In this case, let's say homophobia, misogyny and a slave mentality.

Regards
DL
Those are some of my evils as well.  But hardly all encompassing.  Since you are Gnostic, how does a fictional jesus or a fictional bible help you in any way to figure out what evil is?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Not to get into too much semantics but I think you confuse faith and belief. Faith to me does not take reasoning but belief in something does as it has to get past your reality filters.

I also see atheism as an ideology or  belief system. Yours, to me, as you say includes non-belief in any God. Other than those semantic definition issue, we have no argument.

I like that you follow the Golden rule but would point out that when you correct a theist, and he takes your correction, you in a sense do harm to his mind as he now has to adjust his thinking.

I see the good in that and he should as well but it will hurt for a bit before he ses your tough love for the good that it is.

Do not stop though.

I hope you do that elsewhere as here you might not have much access to those who need correcting the most.

Regards
DL

You can always identify a theist when they say "atheism" [is] an ideology or  belief system".  Like bald is a hair color.  The idea offends me , the person has to be a fool, and obviously a theist.  Theists just HAVE to assume everyone must believe in SOME deity, do if it isn't theirs it is either a false positive one (like llah to chistians or a satanic one.  Such people are idiots and their numbers are legion.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Those are some of my evils as well.  But hardly all encompassing.  Since you are Gnostic, how does a fictional jesus or a fictional bible help you in any way to figure out what evil is?

One issue/question at a a time.

Now that we agree on some evils, are you fighting those evils here and elsewhere?

To your last.
It is the analysing of what those fictions say, that form my view of good and evil, but I get views from non-fictional sources as well and apply reason and logic to them. I also get my views of what is immoral from those same sources.

The source does not matter, the thinking and conclusions I come up with what I embrace. I do not care who the messenger is and focus on the message.

Regards
DL


You can always identify a theist when they say "atheism" [is] an ideology or  belief system".  Like bald is a hair color.  The idea offends me , the person has to be a fool, and obviously a theist.  Theists just HAVE to assume everyone must believe in SOME deity, do if it isn't theirs it is either a false positive one (like llah to chistians or a satanic one.  Such people are idiots and their numbers are legion.

As I said, we have no argument so I will ignore your rather ignorant reply.

You can take your view here if you want.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/atheist-churches-for-real.515762/

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 10:05:49 AM by Greatest I am »

Offline Cavebear

As I said, we have no argument so I will ignore your rather ignorant reply.

You can take your view here if you want.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/atheist-churches-for-real.515762/

Regards
DL

I should hesitate to say I dislike new theists since I am just celebrating my anniversary here.  But I do. 

The discussion is getting so weird I can't tell theists from the atheists lately.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126

If atheism is a belief system, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
“It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Cavebear

If atheism is a belief system, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I like that way of putting it.  My Maternal Grampa tried to get my involved in that hobby but I escaped it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950