Author Topic: If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively op  (Read 401 times)

If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Christians and Muslims seem to think so as evidenced by Inquisitions and Jihads.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence.

 We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. That is a take-off on the adage that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. Gnostic Christians believe in spreading good ideologies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and good moral arguments and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them a better and more moral ways. Some of Christianity has adopted these better ways of late but Islam is lagging and fighting against ideological reform.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did call them out for their evils in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL

Offline Baruch

How have you been doing, GIA?  Missed you.

The first act of opposing something that is wrong, is to not embrace it yourself.

But the neo-lib version is ... compare reality to idealism, and where reality comes up short, force reality to change to our liking.  Unfortunately we don't all agree on the specifics.

The neocon version is ... reality is what it is, exploit what it is, don't bother to force reality to change, simply recognize it and use it to your advantage.

I tend to be centrist.  Recognize reality for what it is, but don't idealize or be cynical either.  There is very little we can do to make things better.  It is Ok to do that much, but sometimes in trying to hard too make things better, we make things worse.  If you have an opportunity to exploit, consider passing that opportunity by.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 09:44:58 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Hey buddy. Long time no chat. Nice to bump into you again.

I can agree that it would be hard to oppose what one embraces.

I do not see a lot of Jewish do unto others in your words my friend.

What do you think of this quote and should the sentiment not include all those around us?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Your words don't quite match what I have seen you lovingly try to do on occasion with your own interlocutors.

I thought you recognized that if none of us took the steps of correcting each other, we would still be living in trees and caves.

Regards
DL



Offline Baruch

Hey buddy. Long time no chat. Nice to bump into you again.

I can agree that it would be hard to oppose what one embraces.

I do not see a lot of Jewish do unto others in your words my friend.

What do you think of this quote and should the sentiment not include all those around us?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Your words don't quite match what I have seen you lovingly try to do on occasion with your own interlocutors.

I thought you recognized that if none of us took the steps of correcting each other, we would still be living in trees and caves.

Regards
DL

Biblical correction is rather severe.  I am gentle.  Like Jesus, my yoke (yoga) is light.  Right now there is only one youth posting here, so not many in need of correction that fit that profile.  Mostly ape men in need of a banana.
שלום

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL
As an atheist, I don't have a 'belief system'.  Belief does not require any reasoning.  And I don't have an ideology; at least not in the way I think you mean it.  You seem to be saying that everybody believes something.  Atheists are non-believers.  Plus, atheists are not a monolithic; we are united in only one thing--we do not believe in nor think any god(s) exist or have existed. 

With the above in mind, my personal code of conduct is controlled by a combo of 'do unto others'/'first do no harm'.  Do I combat evil?  Yeah, I hope so.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

As an atheist, I don't have a 'belief system'.  Belief does not require any reasoning.  And I don't have an ideology; at least not in the way I think you mean it.  You seem to be saying that everybody believes something.  Atheists are non-believers.  Plus, atheists are not a monolithic; we are united in only one thing--we do not believe in nor think any god(s) exist or have existed. 

With the above in mind, my personal code of conduct is controlled by a combo of 'do unto others'/'first do no harm'.  Do I combat evil?  Yeah, I hope so.

Can evil fight evil?  Who are the good guys?  Can the house of Satan stand?
שלום

Offline pr126

Quote
If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Well, you can try.


Islam has been created from the get go for conquest, imperialist - military expansionby war, deception and coertion.

There is no separation of Mosque and state. Law, finance, politics, in fact all aspect of life  is regulated by the system.
The religious aspect of this political system is there to ensure compliance, cohesion.

Islam permits encourages to spread itself by war.
It permits polygamy for replacement of soldiers killed in wars,
More recently for the purpose of demographic advantage.
It teaches hate and warfare against unbelievers.
Women are possessions to the Muslim Male.
Gender apartheid.
Brutal medieval punishments to offenders
Death penalty for apostasy.
And much more.

But to publicly oppose this ideology/religion is forbidden all over the world.

You can try, and suffer the consequences.

That is how weak are the non-Muslims while Islam is gaining strength globally.
Deny it all you want, it will not change reality.





« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 02:22:43 AM by pr126 »
“It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

I only follow one, the most fantastic crime fighter the world has ever known.  Chicken Man. (he's everywhere, he's everywhere!)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 02:31:24 AM by AllPurposeAtheist »
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Baruch

Hey, at work, I am Super Chicken Little Man.  I chicken shit all over your homage to a radio show from the 1960s ;-)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 09:44:33 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Can evil fight evil?  Who are the good guys?  Can the house of Satan stand?
Which brings us to the word 'evil'--what is it?  The OP seems to think it (whatever it is--he did not define it) religion can fight it.  In my eyes, evil and religion go together. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Which brings us to the word 'evil'--what is it?  The OP seems to think it (whatever it is--he did not define it) religion can fight it.  In my eyes, evil and religion go together.

In so far as ... religion (or politics) involve the slavery over people, or over people's minds ... it is evil.  Judaism means .. opposition to slavery.  That is why Gentiles always have to kill us.  Of course, that doesn't prevent individual Jews from being evil.  Diaspora Judaism dodged evil, only because it was lacking in political power.
שלום

If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

What is 'evil'?  Could you define it, so I can know if I'd oppose it. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Cavebear

In so far as ... religion (or politics) involve the slavery over people, or over people's minds ... it is evil.  Judaism means .. opposition to slavery.  That is why Gentiles always have to kill us.  Of course, that doesn't prevent individual Jews from being evil.  Diaspora Judaism dodged evil, only because it was lacking in political power.

"Alien Slaves:

    "Of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondwomen. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them may ye buy and of their families that are with you which they have begotten in your land; and they may be your possession" (Lev. 25:44–45).

Paupers & Debtors:

    A debtor who is unable to pay his debts may give himself in bondage to his creditor (cf. Lev. 25:39; Prov. 22:7; see also II Kings 4:1; Isa. 50:1; Amos 2:6, 8:6; Neh. 5:5). According to other opinions, the verse in Leviticus 25:39 deals with an ordinary pauper who sold himself and the debtor's bondage was against strict law, although it happened from time to time in practice (see Elon, Ḥerut ha-Perat, 1–10, and n. 9; *Execution (Civil)).

Criminals:

    A thief who is unable to make restitution is "sold for his theft" (Ex. 22:2).

Prisoners of War:

    It would appear from Numbers 31:26–27 and Deuteronomy 20:10–11 that prisoners of war could be, and were, taken into bondage, but it has been contended that no prisoners of war were ever taken into private slavery (Kaufmann, Y., Toledot 1 (1937), 651).

Female Slaves:

    A father may sell his daughter into slavery (Ex. 21:7), usually apparently for household duties and eventual marriage (Ex. 21:7–11).

Children of Slaves:

    The Bible mentions "the son of thy handmaid" (Ex. 23:12), "he that is born in the house" (Gen. 17:12, 13; Lev. 22:11), indicating that the status of slaves devolved upon their children.

"
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Yes, in another reality, Jews conquered the Earth and exterminated the Germans (not).  The actual eye-for-an-eye law was liberal, but was invented in Babylon by King Hammurabi ... before Abraham was born.  Rabbinic Jewish leaders made the standard of evidence so difficult, that it was rare to convict anyone of a capital crime.  Which is just as well, since our Gentile overlords didn't like us doing capital punishment ... they preferred to do that themselves.

And yes, I ride to work every day on a camel, that is why the Tanakh/OT is so relevant today ;-)  Jews haven't been even approximately OT since 135 CE.
שלום

Online Cavebear

Yes, in another reality, Jews conquered the Earth and exterminated the Germans (not).  The actual eye-for-an-eye law was liberal, but was invented in Babylon by King Hammurabi ... before Abraham was born.  Rabbinic Jewish leaders made the standard of evidence so difficult, that it was rare to convict anyone of a capital crime.  Which is just as well, since our Gentile overlords didn't like us doing capital punishment ... they preferred to do that themselves.

And yes, I ride to work every day on a camel, that is why the Tanakh/OT is so relevant today ;-)  Jews haven't been even approximately OT since 135 CE.

Im sure there are sci-fi books about the Jews being the majority religion on Earth or some other planet.   Whoppee.

Which would be interesting to discuss the alt-Earth.  But then you go dumb about "ride to work every day on a camel".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950