Author Topic: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??  (Read 2042 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #285 on: November 11, 2017, 02:11:35 PM »
When I get a competent summary from MikeCL?  Why? 

Thank you.  I just ordered it.  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #286 on: November 11, 2017, 02:36:24 PM »
Thank you.  I just ordered it.  LOL!

What will your order it to do?  You meanie!
שלום

Offline Mike Cl (OP)

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #287 on: November 11, 2017, 02:42:30 PM »
On The Historicity Of Jesus?  Amazon wants $35 for a paperback?  I already doubt the historiosity of jesus.  Convince me to spend $35.
Not able to do that.  But keep checking and I'm sure that sooner or later it will go on sale.  And if you ever get to a big bookstore look it up and scan it.  That will convince you to get it. :)
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Mike Cl (OP)

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #288 on: November 11, 2017, 02:43:29 PM »
Thank you.  I just ordered it.  LOL!
I guess I did not try hard enough.  :)))  I know you will love it.  I'd be interested in any comments you have about it as you read it. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #289 on: November 12, 2017, 04:42:01 AM »
Thanks MikeCL ... good thread for realistic history.
שלום

Offline Mike Cl (OP)

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #290 on: November 12, 2017, 10:52:21 AM »
Thanks MikeCL ... good thread for realistic history.
You're welcome, Baruch.  Helps me keep things straight when I put them in writing.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #291 on: November 12, 2017, 12:03:31 PM »
You're welcome, Baruch.  Helps me keep things straight when I put them in writing.

I enjoyed this, and the video by Carrier.  But the further details for me, are been there, done that.  But I can do heavy books, with lots of footnotes.  I am working The Sufi Jewish Dialog by Diana Lobel.  11th century CE Iberian mysticism in the Convivencia of the three Abrahamic faiths, 78 pages of footnotes, in five languages ... Hebrew, Arabic, English, French and German.

I hope that Cavebear enjoys your book (Carrier) and will share some more details that strike him as interesting.  The 1st century CE was a very dynamic period.



We are Greco-Roman ... and Judeo-Christian ... even for those 2000 years ago, who were secular.  The 21st century is a modernized version of the 1st century.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 12:30:29 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #292 on: November 15, 2017, 05:30:30 AM »
I guess I did not try hard enough.  :)))  I know you will love it.  I'd be interested in any comments you have about it as you read it.

I'm not going to read it tonight.  But here is why I ordered it...

The JWs knocked on my door early this year when I had been up all night (here) and I decided to talk to them.  I challengd them to prove there was actually a "jesus".  I pointed out the Romans never referred to him, etc. 

They took my argument to heart.  They left a brochure claiming to prove Jesus did exist.  It was weak evidence at best, of course, being mostly hearsay after the time.  But it apparently mattered to them. 

They beat on my door while I slept late a couple times after that.  Bad timing.  I would have talked to them about the claim if I had been up and dressed.

But I kind of know their schedule now, so I will use the book (I hope) to make a list of arguments about it.  I don't have any special doubts, but I love to plant doubts in THEM.  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Mike Cl (OP)

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #293 on: November 15, 2017, 09:07:35 AM »
I'm not going to read it tonight.  But here is why I ordered it...

The JWs knocked on my door early this year when I had been up all night (here) and I decided to talk to them.  I challengd them to prove there was actually a "jesus".  I pointed out the Romans never referred to him, etc. 

They took my argument to heart.  They left a brochure claiming to prove Jesus did exist.  It was weak evidence at best, of course, being mostly hearsay after the time.  But it apparently mattered to them. 

They beat on my door while I slept late a couple times after that.  Bad timing.  I would have talked to them about the claim if I had been up and dressed.

But I kind of know their schedule now, so I will use the book (I hope) to make a list of arguments about it.  I don't have any special doubts, but I love to plant doubts in THEM.  LOL!
This book addresses each and every argument that the JW's could possibly use.  I don't know what was on that list--but I am confident that Carrier will have detailed arguments about what is on that list.  This book is that good.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #294 on: November 15, 2017, 09:19:16 AM »
This book addresses each and every argument that the JW's could possibly use.  I don't know what was on that list--but I am confident that Carrier will have detailed arguments about what is on that list.  This book is that good.

Well, I was going screaming nuts trying to figure out how to attach a turntable between 2 boards earlier while doing some laundry and thawing out some homemade spaghetti sauce, so I I am just catching up.  I WILL be reading the book soon.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #295 on: November 15, 2017, 09:20:50 AM »
Well, I was going screaming nuts trying to figure out how to attach a turntable between 2 boards earlier while doing some laundry and thawing out some homemade spaghetti sauce, so I I am just catching up.  I WILL be reading the book soon.

If you can suggest a few impressive pages, I would appreciate it.  650 pages is a lot!  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Mike Cl (OP)

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #296 on: November 15, 2017, 02:45:50 PM »
If you can suggest a few impressive pages, I would appreciate it.  650 pages is a lot!  LOL!
It really depends upon what your most driving question is.  If there is one, just use the index and look it up. The Table of Contents is well constructed--easy to find most any specific issue.  If still at a loss, read The Conclusion first.  Then branch out.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #297 on: November 15, 2017, 02:51:32 PM »
It really depends upon what your most driving question is.  If there is one, just use the index and look it up. The Table of Contents is well constructed--easy to find most any specific issue.  If still at a loss, read The Conclusion first.  Then branch out.

You are right, I should look at the structure of the book first.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #298 on: November 15, 2017, 06:47:50 PM »
It really depends upon what your most driving question is.  If there is one, just use the index and look it up. The Table of Contents is well constructed--easy to find most any specific issue.  If still at a loss, read The Conclusion first.  Then branch out.

I like to read the last chapter of a book first.
שלום

Offline Mike Cl (OP)

Re: Jesus--Fact or Fiction??
« Reply #299 on: November 15, 2017, 08:46:03 PM »
I like to read the last chapter of a book first.
I tend to do the same--except when it is fictional book.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?