Author Topic: #Progressive News  (Read 755 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2017, 12:27:38 PM »
Bearturds don't clarify, they stink

Gee, thanks.  And after all the nice things I've said about you to people you don't know and can't be sure exist...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2017, 12:37:00 PM »
Your mistake.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.  For you, in the US, it wasn't political.  If you lived in the Warsaw pact it was.  And R-wingers here didn't fail to notice.  It was one of their chief means, since 1917, to declare jihad on communists and communism.  Particularly in Germany.

And most people consider such fascist stuff as ideology, not theology.  Otherwise I can report lots of people here worship false gods.  If I accepted your definition of deity, then all Presidents from Kennedy forward, are false gods, and political parties are churches (not just as polling places).

But that's the point.  We didn't and we don't.

Look I try to understand that Europe is like sometimes after Napoleon, WWI and WWI!.  Bismark said the US was blessed with 2 oceans and 2 weak neighbors.  He was right.  But isn't that at least a temporary benefit to the rest of the world. 

We could have just stayed out of it all and benefited more.  Hitler's Germany would have traded with us just fine via a conquered Britain.  Would you have liked that better? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2017, 12:41:03 PM »
What is the difference between theology and ideology?
Isn't theology just an idea? Isn't religion just an idea?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 12:47:47 PM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2017, 01:24:52 PM »
What is the difference between theology and ideology?
Isn't theology just an idea? Isn't religion just an idea?

Either pages or a couple sentences...

Religion is the idea that humans are playthings of a deity.  Idealogy is the idea that some humans are the playthings of other humans.  Some of us are neither.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2017, 01:33:10 PM »
What is the difference between theology and ideology?
Isn't theology just an idea? Isn't religion just an idea?

Isn't lunch just an idea .. if you don't bother to eat?
שלום

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2017, 01:37:57 PM »
Isn't lunch just an idea .. if you don't bother to eat?
Bad analogy.
One cannot live too long without eating.
One can live a lifetime without a religion. (an ideology).
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2017, 01:39:06 PM »
Isn't lunch just an idea .. if you don't bother to eat?

Food is a requirement.  What you HAVE for lunch is an ideology.  What you can't have for lunch is a theism.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2017, 01:39:29 PM »
But that's the point.  We didn't and we don't.

Look I try to understand that Europe is like sometimes after Napoleon, WWI and WWI!.  Bismark said the US was blessed with 2 oceans and 2 weak neighbors.  He was right.  But isn't that at least a temporary benefit to the rest of the world. 

We could have just stayed out of it all and benefited more.  Hitler's Germany would have traded with us just fine via a conquered Britain.  Would you have liked that better?

If Hitler had recognized his Jewish ancestry, and employed smart Jewish Germans ... he would have won easily, particularly if he didn't try to be such a Hun.  Einstein etc working for Hitler instead of FDR.  And yes, Bismarck was way too smart .. part of what makes Germans so damn dangerous.  Yes, you just pin pointed British paranoia about the US.  We still had contingent war plans to go to war with the British Empire, and steal Canada, as late as 1939 (Plan Red).  British paranoia is why they had to find a way to indirectly rule the US from London, and did so, and still do.  I am moderately pro-American, but not anti-anyone.  As it was, as Hitler was (he could have been the best German of all time instead of the worst) ... we only made it out of WW II by the skin of our teeth (thanks to Russian and Chinese casualties mostly).
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2017, 01:41:44 PM »
Bad analogy.
One cannot live too long without eating.
One can live a lifetime without a religion. (an ideology).

I was being elliptical as usual ... I like the conics ;-)

You equate religion and politics, it is who you are.  It isn't who I am.  I can separate the two.  This is because of our very different origins.  You from E Europe, me from America.  I would hate to fight over something that is so characteristic of us as individuals, that we can't possibly change it.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 01:44:38 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2017, 01:43:24 PM »
Either pages or a couple sentences...

Religion is the idea that humans are playthings of a deity.  Idealogy is the idea that some humans are the playthings of other humans.  Some of us are neither.

Bravo.  But then we are both Americans.  We were never raised in a State Church country, or under the Warsaw Pact.  Sorry for those who were ... it must be scaring, like a saber slash on the cheek of a Prussian officer ;-)
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2017, 01:49:38 PM »
If Hitler had recognized his Jewish ancestry, and employed smart Jewish Germans ... he would have won easily, particularly if he didn't try to be such a Hun.  Einstein etc working for Hitler instead of FDR.  And yes, Bismarck was way too smart .. part of what makes Germans so damn dangerous.  Yes, you just pin pointed British paranoia about the US.  We still had contingent war plans to go to war with the British Empire, and steal Canada, as late as 1939 (Plan Red).  British paranoia is why they had to find a way to indirectly rule the US from London, and did so, and still do.  I am moderately pro-American, but not anti-anyone.  As it was, as Hitler was (he could have been the best German of all time instead of the worst) ... we only made it out of WW II by the skin of our teeth (thanks to Russian and Chinese casualties mostly).
History is full of "what-ifs"

Mostly, I like the alternative history Hitler (history-wise not humanity-wise) not attacking the Soviets and just unloading his armies into Britain.  And then sitting in Europe...

The Spanish Armada could have conquered England if not for a storm and the same for China at Japan.  Napolean could have won in Russia.  Or Waterloo.  Japan might have caught the US Aircraft carriers in Pearl harbor.  Martians might have landed in Europe and changed WWII.

I love alternative history.  But what was, is.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2017, 01:59:25 PM »
Quote
You equate religion and politics, it is who you are.
But religion is politics. Always was, always will be. A struggle for POWER.

For example, look at Islam. Especially political Islam, where state and religion are inseparable.
It is a total system, that dictates every aspect of life, from using the toilet to foreign policy, finance, state.

It is baked into the [political] religion that Islam MUST be supreme, not just for Muslims, but for the whole planet.

Read these 24 points:

the Islamic memeplex


« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 02:09:49 PM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2017, 02:09:24 PM »
But religion is politics. Always was, always will be.

For example, look at Islam. Especially, political |Islam, where state and religion are inseparable.
It is a total system, that dictates every aspect of life, from using the toilet to foreign policy, finance, state.

It is baked into the [political] religion that Islam MUST be supreme, not just for Muslims, but for the whole planet.

Read these 24 points:

the Islamic memeplex

Religion and Politics may be integrated in many places but they are not the same.  At least not forever.  christianity and politics were connected in Europe, for example, and political leaders slowly pulled themselves free.  It will happen with islam too.  eventually.  Religious fervor fades in time, but the urges of political people do not.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2017, 02:16:01 PM »
Religion and Politics may be integrated in many places but they are not the same.  At least not forever.  christianity and politics were connected in Europe, for example, and political leaders slowly pulled themselves free.  It will happen with islam too.  eventually.  Religious fervor fades in time, but the urges of political people do not.

I disagree.

What may happen in the future, and that could be hundreds of years from now, is of no consequence to our time.
There is absolutely no reason to entertain that idea, which for us is just wishful thinking.

The reality is here and now. And it is not looking good.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 02:18:21 PM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Cavebear

Re: #Progressive News
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2017, 02:19:38 PM »
I disagree.

Read this

Look, what may happen in the future, and that could be hundreds of years from now, is of no consequence to our time.
There is absolutely no reason to entertain that idea, which for us is just wishful thinking.

The reality is here and now.And it is not looking good.

One A-bomb, most of the fanatics are gone.  Good of them to collect in one spot.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950