How do Christians comprehend the iconic duo of free will and predestination?

Started by Goon, October 03, 2017, 12:37:53 AM

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Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 06:30:15 AM
Some of us are so hairy, we grow hair inward.  Ingrown furry intelligence, like you for instance ;-)

I am not hairy.  Outwardly or inwardly.  If you to claim being either, that is your business.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 08:42:22 AM
I am not hairy.  Outwardly or inwardly.  If you to claim being either, that is your business.

So you are a grub, not a caterpillar ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 07, 2017, 02:27:13 PM
Neither a grub, nor a caterpillar, nor butterfly I be.

No hope for you then.  Rocks develop very slowly compared to grubs etc.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2017, 07:18:36 PM
No hope for you then.  Rocks develop very slowly compared to grubs etc.

I am also not a rock.  I am a full-fledged human, rational and thoughtful.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 12:31:35 AM
I am also not a rock.  I am a full-fledged human, rational and thoughtful.

You may be X, but act as Y.  This is of course, irrational ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 02:06:55 AM
You may be X, but act as Y.  This is of course, irrational ...

And if I was xy and stayed an xy you would when say I was "rational"?  Or would that bother you like pulling out a tooth?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 05:44:39 AM
And if I was xy and stayed an xy you would when say I was "rational"?  Or would that bother you like pulling out a tooth?

People make all sorts of claims, about themselves and others, that have no basis in fact.  And they claim to be factual ... and rational.  I consider all humans to be used car salesmen.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 10:26:45 AM
People make all sorts of claims, about themselves and others, that have no basis in fact.  And they claim to be factual ... and rational.  I consider all humans to be used car salesmen.

I'm sorry you think that way.  Only 10% of them are.  If you allow for all slesmen/women of all products.  Most of the rest of us are actually productive.  Who do you think builds houses?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 12:10:32 PM
I'm sorry you think that way.  Only 10% of them are.  If you allow for all slesmen/women of all products.  Most of the rest of us are actually productive.  Who do you think builds houses?

Carpenters, plumbers etc.  But if you ask the banks, it is bankers making reckless loans to dead beats.  Just like any other work place ... the management think they do everything, and their subordinates are ... worthless.  Easier just to do it yourself, they tell themselves.  It is actually a dialectic, everything is.  There are no rich without the poor etc.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 12:59:42 PM
Carpenters, plumbers etc.  But if you ask the banks, it is bankers making reckless loans to dead beats.  Just like any other work place ... the management think they do everything, and their subordinates are ... worthless.  Easier just to do it yourself, they tell themselves.  It is actually a dialectic, everything is.  There are no rich without the poor etc.

The best office years of my life were when I had supervisor who didn't even PRETEND to know what I was doing.  The only time I ever bothered him was when I needed a letter signed and his only question was "Will this get me in trouble?".  And my answer was that I would sign it myself.  When he retired, I did sign the letters myself.   
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 01:36:46 PM
The best office years of my life were when I had supervisor who didn't even PRETEND to know what I was doing.  The only time I ever bothered him was when I needed a letter signed and his only question was "Will this get me in trouble?".  And my answer was that I would sign it myself.  When he retired, I did sign the letters myself.   

Similar for me in the current job.  I actually am competent, and can be trusted.  But that doesn't mean I don't inadvertently embarrass him ... I wouldn't want to ... but shit happens.  When we are young, having a short leash is more justified.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2017, 02:02:54 PM
Similar for me in the current job.  I actually am competent, and can be trusted.  But that doesn't mean I don't inadvertently embarrass him ... I wouldn't want to ... but shit happens.  When we are young, having a short leash is more justified.

This will seem stupid (but when did that ever stop me before)?  You know I'm not a bear in spite of my avatar.  But I keep seeing your avatar (a person) and picturing you as that.    Good thing you didn't choose Einstein or Darwin or Dad.  THAT would really have me messed up!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 02:08:52 PM
This will seem stupid (but when did that ever stop me before)?  You know I'm not a bear in spite of my avatar.  But I keep seeing your avatar (a person) and picturing you as that.    Good thing you didn't choose Einstein or Darwin or Dad.  THAT would really have me messed up!

Your dad or my dad?  Dad-dad (someplace in Iraq I hear)?

No, I would choose a person, preferably historical.  Spinoza is a better choice than Einstein or Darwin.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2017, 02:08:52 PM
This will seem stupid (but when did that ever stop me before)?  You know I'm not a bear in spite of my avatar.  But I keep seeing your avatar (a person) and picturing you as that.    Good thing you didn't choose Einstein or Darwin or Dad.  THAT would really have me messed up!

You aren't a real cavebear?!

All i know is lies.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.